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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) converting rimfires (Read 7582 times)
tdelewis
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converting rimfires
Aug 23rd, 2013 at 10:48am
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I am new to the forum.  I have been looking to purchase a used rifle.  I have been looking at stevens model 44 and the favorite.  It seems that there are many rimfires available in 25 and 32.  I want to know is it difficult to convert them to 22lr or a center fire such as 25-20?  Is it a costly operation as I would need to send it out to have it done?  I am also an engraver of 3 years expierence.  I would like to have 3 or 4 single shots for display at the FEGA show in 2015.
  
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bisaacson
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Re: converting rimfires
Reply #1 - Aug 23rd, 2013 at 7:17pm
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My preference is to leave the rimfire rifle as it is and convert the ammunition. It leaves the gun original, which may not be entirely practical, but it is historic. Converting the ammo is fun. I cut chambers in re-sized cases fit to the (usually a little worn) chambers so that I can optimize the fit, and then use empty .22 LR cases for priming. The old guns aren't very strong, but if they are converted to CF, you might know the dangers involved with modern ammunition in an old weak gun, but Harlow Parkenfarker might not. With original chambering, someone who gets the gun down the road will have to put some thought into what they will do for ammo. I had a couple of articles about how to do it in the June and October 2010 SSE. It works for other RF calibers too. I even bought a gun just to see if I could make .25 Steven RF ammo. I could and it worked just fine. Amaze your friends.
  
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tdelewis
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Re: converting rimfires
Reply #2 - Aug 24th, 2013 at 10:50am
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Thanks so much.  I just received my first copy of SSE.  I would really like to get a copy of that Oct. 2010 issue you mentioned.  Do they have back issues available?  Also is there an index for the magazines to check on other past articles?
  
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bisaacson
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Re: converting rimfires
Reply #3 - Aug 24th, 2013 at 3:03pm
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Check with Lee Shaver who took over from Brett Boyd as the publisher. I don't know if Lee got the stock of back issues. I'm also not sure if there is an index, but there are still copies of the 1st and 3rd compendiums. If we all bug Lee enough, he may print a 4th compendium and reprint the 2nd. There is a wealth of info there. If the back issues aren't available, I may ask Lee if he would mind if I sent the articles to the ASSRA magazine so a few more folks could see the process. The June issue was about the Stevens 25 RF and the October one was about the 32 RF & CFs.
  
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tdelewis
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Re: converting rimfires
Reply #4 - Aug 24th, 2013 at 3:11pm
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Thanks again I will folow up on it.
  
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Redsetter
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Re: converting rimfires
Reply #5 - Aug 24th, 2013 at 9:49pm
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bisaacson wrote on Aug 23rd, 2013 at 7:17pm:
The old guns aren't very strong, but if they are converted to CF, you might know the dangers involved with modern ammunition in an old weak gun, but Harlow Parkenfarker might not.


No danger of this when a .32RF is converted to .32 Long or Short CF, as there's no "modern" ammo available for it, aside from very old, old-stock; strictly a handloading proposition.  Even bullets must be hand cast.  If only Stevens had shown the ingenuity & common sense of Marlin & Wesson by developing their own reversible firing pin, all those 44s & Favorites would not be languishing.  
« Last Edit: Aug 24th, 2013 at 11:16pm by Redsetter »  
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John Taylor
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Re: converting rimfires
Reply #6 - Aug 25th, 2013 at 10:20pm
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with the Favorite it is best to stay with rim fire, 22s or 17.  The 44 can be made centerfire in 25-20, 32-20 and a few others. While there were a few made in 32-40 and 38-55 they had an extra support with the hammer going under the breach to hold it up.
  

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40_Rod
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Re: converting rimfires
Reply #7 - Aug 26th, 2013 at 9:34am
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You didn't mention what model the 44 action is in. If it is one of the lower grades then go ahead and convert it. If it were a higher grade than I would leave it as is. Generally the 25 and 32 rimfires are in better shape because they saw less use. As the ammunition dried up they went to the back of the closet. I would consider the 44 to be appropriate for either .22 rimfire or 25-20 SS in centerfire. My reasoning is simple The 25-20 Single shot is no longer loaded commercially as is both the 25-20 Repeater or the 32-20, both of which are loaded for lever guns and way too hot for a 44 action. At least the 25-20 has to be loaded by the owner who will be aware of the actions limitations.

40 Rod
  
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Redsetter
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Re: converting rimfires
Reply #8 - Aug 26th, 2013 at 10:44am
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40_Rod wrote on Aug 26th, 2013 at 9:34am:
Generally the 25 and 32 rimfires are in better shape because they saw less use. As the ammunition dried up they went to the back of the closet.


Can't say that's what I've observed, at least with respect to the .32s. (.25s are much scarcer.)  Before the ammo dried up, they were cheap to shoot, often in the hands (it would appear) of not very meticulous owners.  As recently as 30 yrs ago, Canadian-made ammo was plentiful at gun shows.

No sin at all in my opinion in converting the "well-used" ones.  (And not much sin, frankly, in converting the very nice ones, IF a first-class job is done.) If a shootable bore remains, the excellent, accurate, .32 S&W Long is hard to beat.  I'd do this with my mint #4 Rem. if I didn't find all boy's rifles unsatisfying to shoot.
  
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tdelewis
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Re: converting rimfires
Reply #9 - Aug 27th, 2013 at 11:10am
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Thanks to all who have been answering my question. This is a great learning expierence.  I have come to know how little understanding I have.  Any conversion I do would be for ammo that can be reloaded easily and cases easily obtained, or for 22 lr.  My main concern was if a 25 or 32 rim fire is converted to 22lr is this expensive operation.  What new parts are needed besides a barrel liner?
  
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slumlord44
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Re: converting rimfires
Reply #10 - Aug 27th, 2013 at 9:52pm
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With a .32, extractor and the firing pin will probably have to be relocated. With the .25 an extractor or possible to weld it up to work. Firing pin may work or may have to be relocated.
  
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Aonghas
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Re: converting rimfires
Reply #11 - Aug 28th, 2013 at 5:23pm
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[quote author=7C4B4A5D4B5A5A4B5C2E0 link=1377269337/8#8 date=1377528277

/snip/

No sin at all in my opinion in converting the "well-used" ones.  (And not much sin, frankly, in converting the very nice ones, IF a first-class job is done.) If a shootable bore remains, the excellent, accurate, .32 S&W Long is hard to beat.  I'd do this with my mint #4 Rem. if I didn't find all boy's rifles unsatisfying to shoot. [/quote]

I find boys' rifles just as much fun to shoot as their bigger brothers - I have a 20-bore flintlock deer gun which is fun, and am restoring a flintlock 4-bore elephant rifle which might just be a bit of a *%#@* to shoot! I used to shoot a DB .577" Nitro Express, but I am still happy with my .22 Stevens S/Shot bolt-action of around the turn of last century.

I had a bloodthirsty lad of around thirteen staying with me on one occasion and he came into the kitchen - "There are some rabbits with the goats - can we shoot them?"

I got the Stevens frrom the safe and yes, there were rabbits, and the goats had moved away from them, so i stalked-up carefully to the gate and plugged one. "You hit it!" Dan exclaimed, "I was aiming at it." I replied. We paced it out at sixty yards and Dan said "You hit it in the head!".

"I was aiming at the head."

He exuded an aura of disbelief...

We had rabbit casserole for the evening meal, and the next day, being short of meat, we went to a likely spot (where I had permission to shoot) and spotted a hare amongst the kale. I aimed at the area it was moving about in, offhand (so as to be able to see it), and when it got up to have a look around - crack!. This time he believed me that i had aimed at the head. (That was all that was visible...)

The deer gun might have spoilt supper, and the elephant gun - well...

Aonghas
  
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Chev. William
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Re: converting rimfires
Reply #12 - Sep 16th, 2013 at 7:25pm
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For your information on the conversions:  I am in the process of having two "Parts" 1894 series Stevens Favorite actions put back into working order.

There are several different "series" of Stevens Favorite actions and they are Not All the Same Strength.

You can go to "Wisner's" web site and find a article on the Stevens Favorites and how to tell them apart, and identify which parts fit which series.

In General the first design is the '1886' and is the smallest "Scantlines" or design strength, as it was designed for the .22 RF series of the time, and there were more .22RF cartridge designations than are presently available.

The 1894 Series version was designed with stronger "Scantlines" to handle the .25RF and the .32RF cartridges and were even tried in some of the weaker, at the time CF cartridges, but found later to be slightly weak for Smokeless Powder loads in those CF calibers.  this design did successfully work with the RF calibers in Smokeless Powder loadings.

The 1915 Series is designed with even stronger "Scantlines and some strengthening features that can be used to advantage with small, but useful CF conversions to such as the .32 S&W Short, and Long, if loaded within reason.  Many have reported successfully c9onverting .32 Long RF to .32 Long Colt, a caliber with the same body diameter, and smaller than the .32 S&W CF series, which greatly reduces the chance of someone inadvertently trying to fire a heavy modern load in these older rifle actions.

Then there are the Model 44 and 44-1/2, the strongest reported in the series,  the Model 30 both old and modern all of which are higher current prices than I find reasonable Except for a Custom Reproduction of the Model 44-1/2 with the Beauty and strength to justify the high prices.

AS to my own projects, they are both 1894 series and since I acquired spare Breech Blocks, will be set up with CF Breech Blocks to fire the .32 Long Colt, hand loaded with Cast inside lubed Heeled Round Flat nose Bullets.
« Last Edit: Sep 19th, 2013 at 11:51pm by Chev. William »  
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Chev. William
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Re: converting rimfires
Reply #13 - Sep 16th, 2013 at 7:34pm
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Continuing:  My project .25 Stevens caliber Favorite will be upgraded with stronger, heat treated Alloy pins and Screws and I will be using some CF ammo that will be hand loaded except for some .25ACP rounds, which match the sizes and pressures of the .25 Stevens RF cartridge.
The size of the .25ACP is similar to the .25 Stevens Short but with the ballistics of the .25 Stevens Long.

I am also developing a CF Case of the same general dimensions as the .25 Stevens Long, which will hold at least 9.0 grains of fffg Black Powder (Loose and without compression by test measurements) at a case length of 1.125", and possibly around 10 grains with compression of the charge.  this is about the original loading of the .25 Stevens Long RF cartridge.

Best Regards,
Chev. William
« Last Edit: Sep 18th, 2013 at 6:19pm by Chev. William »  
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John Taylor
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Re: converting rimfires
Reply #14 - Sep 18th, 2013 at 10:44am
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Several years ago Wisner said he planned on making replacement breach blocks for the Favorite. He said there are four different breach blocks for this action.
  

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