Good luck on getting a barrel from Ernie, I have had a 45 caliber octagon blank on order for three years and the last time I was able to talk to him about the order was two years ago at the SHOT SHOW. Hopefully someone has one in inventory that will fill your needs.

SSS

There are some rumors out there about what may or may not have happened with Badger Barrels.  Ernie and Jeri have been trying to retire and they sold the company several years ago and then I heard that they got the company back because of poor management (rumor or not??)  Last year the company was purchased by Wilson Arms and according to their website, they now own Badger Barrels.  We may have seen the last of the BPCR Barrels produced by Badger.  Good luck in finding one in remaining stock.
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By the way, Track of the Wolf sent me a flyer that Green Mountain is no longer making BPCR barrels either.  Probably a sign that us old farts aren't building as many rifles as we used to.  Bob

Green Mountain had shut down last fall to rebuild a larger faciliity to make the black powder barrels, move machinery, etc. They are back in production. They did NOT quit making the barrels we use. I've used quite a few Green Mountain barrels and have never had one that did not shoot very well.

Krieger barrels are very good. I used one and it was the straightest barrel I've ever used. It shot very well also. Douglas barrels are good also and available. You have choices.

Thanks all, I sent Ernie a e-mail, no luck yet!
How well do the Kriegers work with black powder loads?

Hard to imagine Green Mt out of Black Powder Barrel Business, it's most of what they do.  Go for GM or Douglas be shooting instead of waiting for phone calls or emails to be returned.

Douglas has probably won more matches than any other Cast bullet barrel.

Boats

boats wrote on Jul 7^th, 2013 at 5:48pm:

Am wondering why you think this?
Per the equipment list at the latest Shippensburg 'supershoot', there were 6-Badger, 4-Miroku, 2-GM, 2-RKS, 2-Shiloh, 1-Douglas, 1-Snover, 1-Kreiger and a whole bunch who don't know what they are shooting.

There were 12x 40-65s, 2x 38-55s, 1x 38-56, 2x 40-70, 1x 45-90 (the match winner 53/60), 1x 40-50, 7x 45-70 and 1x 40-82. Again, a couple who do not know what they are shooting.

Douglas because they have been making them longer, button rifled, nice and smooth for cast bullets and many custom rifle builders spec Douglas due availability.

No doubt BPC match like Shippensburg has a lot of others makes, factory spec on the rifles shooters used probably accounted for half of them. Few on the Internet talk about Douglas lot of guys shoot them. Back in my CBA days it was the only barrel to have. Probably 75 % of CPA's carry Douglas barrels.

Makes no sense to me look for something you can't get from somebody that's in and out of business when you could be shooting. If it's not right who are you going to send it to ? old owner new owner or newest owner. Douglas or Green Mt answer the phone and ship barrels

Boats

John same here I have probably used a dozen  Douglas barrels between Single shots and High power Silhouette rifles. Douglas 38 barrel is the one to beat our club matches 3 or 4 of us are using them, Match winner results far higher than any other brand. 

I did some pretty extensive rimfire testing when buying a case of ammo few years ago. Pair of top notch Anschutz Position and Silhouette rifles. Kimber Factory barreled Rifle. Springfield 1922 M2 and two Douglas barreled CPA's  All the same ammo RWS R 50. Only rifle that would shoot with the Douglas / CPA's was the Anschutz Super Match 54. So close it was impossible to tell the groups apart if not labeled.  Reservation, the M2 Springfield was Iron sighted and could not see it's true potential. Straight from the factory not much shooting today that can run with Anschutz which is a pretty good endorsement for Douglas/CPA

No doubt the RKS guys have done very well in Western matches too.  Never saw one on the East Coast, probably ought to try one see if I can break out of the pack.

High power shooters use a lot of the newer names with good results. I don't know much about them and not sure it has any relationship to Cast bullet single shot shooting. If you can get one go for it.

Boats

I machine on barrels almost every week day. I have noticed that Douglas barrels seem to be a little harder than most other brands. The heat treat on most rifle barrel runs from 28C to 32C for hardness and one company told me they were trying for 28C. I believe Douglas is probably closer to the 32C. Most of the barrels I use are GM or McGowen but sometimes the customer will send his own barrel. I have had a few come in that appear to have very little heat treat. Muzzle loading barrels are usually out of something a little softer like 12L14 or 1137 and I sometimes use 4150 annealed for making BP cartridge barrels because it machines good and is still much stronger than an original barrel.

boats wrote on Jul 7^th, 2013 at 9:03pm:

Once you get your 40-65 CPA rolling and start shooting some of the BPCR matches you will find any number of RKS barrels here in the east. Some on CPA rifles shooting in the master/AAA classes.

In 1988 I and another gunsmith at the Special Warfare Ccenter at Ft. Bragg installed 13 Douglas XX SS 30 caliber barrels on some vintage VN era M40 actions chambered for 7.62 NATO. These barrels replaced McMillan barrels that went more than 12k rds and were still shooting 1.5moa. We had a fear the McMillans (MM) would die in the middle of a course so new Douglas tubes were acquired. Unlike the MM's the Douglas tubes required a longer break-in but were soon shooting within 1moa. That lasted for about 5-6K then the groups starting growing significantly. They would shoot perhaps 5rds tightly but once the barrel was fouled they quit grouping. We cut one open and discovered the leade to be about 6 inches long!!! Fortunately the Army fielded the first M24's in October 1988 and we were the first to receive them.

When I was a kid my dad once took an old barrel and drove it in the ground to tie a goat to. Since my experience with Douglas at Ft. Bragg the only use I can think for their barrels would be as goat stakes but I don't really have an opinion on their barrels

SS

Throat erosion,   Louis.

Joe.

Current Douglas .32 rifling profile is different than 70's 80's early 90's profiles. The lands are narrower. Current Douglas barrels shoot lead bullets better over a wider temperature range than their earlier barrels.  Excellent barrels now.

        Joe. 

Maybe age added 10yrs 

Yanno, since I retired I can neither cownt nor spel . . . 

There is no reason that a button rifled barrel can’t shoot as well or better than a cut-rifled barrel. We prefer cut rifled barrels, I think, because of tradition and the level of craftsmanship that it takes to make one. All barrel makers today are able to turn out a hummer and a few duds. Why is different given the difference between the two processes. It is my belief, all other factors being equal, that the straightness of the bore is what makes the difference.

40 Rod

Watched two people shoot very nice targets at 200 with 38/55s. One was a Joe Williams barrel, the other a Norman Johnson barrel. Have been testing a .45 picket rifle with a Norman Johnson barrel. Tack driver.

          Joe.

Never saw a Douglas with a 1/2 MOA advantage over anyone else's barrel especially with M118 of any variation. Several sniper instructors (mil and LE) I have know over the years have tried a Douglas and since gone elsewhere with their business.

IIRC the Army required the M24's to maintain 1.5MOA out to 12k rds during final acceptance testing. When they quit using Rock barrels because of slow delivery circa 1990 and started making 5R profiles on a hammer forge Remington again had to pass the 12K test. Sure, Douglas may go 4K within 1 MOA but with the cost of rebarreling hardly worth the work and definitely not for law enforcement guys that often buy and maintain their own gear.

IMHO the real test of a rifleman is taking him to unknown terrain, placing a target at an unknown distance and giving him a single round to make the shot within 1 minute or arrival. No rangefinders, windmeasuring devices. Small groups are interesting but field application is for me the greatest measure of marksmanship skill...

SS

When it comes to booze and women, no better thought than go ugly early 

SS

Leadball's got it right, long as it's not bad all the top brands are good enough.

Boats

Sorry guys, I got a little busy with other stuff. but finally got back to this forum.
Still no answer from Ernie, I just got a couple of notices of barrels I need to check out, hopefully both are new and not used.

I got a barrel that looks and gauges good, will give it a try.
This has caused so very good discussion, just had to read every one of the replies. Thanks, Tom

I noticed the green mountain barrels cut differently when I did a .338/405 winchester wildcat on a high wall last year.  The steel cut very smoothly, but didn't create a chip, rather it cut a continuous wire that ran very hot, the wire came out deeply blued.  The chamber cut very smoothly, but slow and very fine cuttings.  That barrel was what they describe as 41V50 steel.

I chambered a .257 barrel from them also last year, but didn't notice anything different about it.  It drawfiled and finished like a dream.  The .22 lr barrels I have done haven't been hard either.  I've done a few .45 barrels, but don't remember anything different.   

I notice a wide range of performance difference in cutting barrel steel from different manufacturers.  The times I have tapered Douglas barrels, I have realized why their rough turned barrels look like they do.  Their steel seems to cut much less smoothly than some other makers steel does.  If you use a flat cutter, it chatters.  A pointed cutter does well, but leaves a rough finish, and a lot of tear-outs.

I haven't cut enough barrels to do a good comparison, but there is a marked difference between makers.

dave