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gunlaker
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Breech seating with wads question
Jun 4th, 2013 at 1:19am
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I only shoot black powder.  I put a .030" veg fiber wad over my powder charge and breech seat the bullet ahead of the case.   

It seems to me that the wad is going to cross the gap to the bullet base and slam into it, potentially damaging the bullet base.

I'm pretty confident that the wad makes a measurable imprint on the base as I've recovered LDPE wads shot under paper patched bullets and found imprints of the folded paper on the wads.  Those wads are reasonably tough.

Are any of you guys breech seating the bullet with an additional wad at the base of the bullet to protect the base?  I've been doing this with breech seated paper patched loads in one of my .38-55's with pretty good results.

Chris.
  
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MAD MIKE
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Re: Breech seating with wads question
Reply #1 - Jun 4th, 2013 at 3:33am
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      Try the light floral foam for a wad, it disintergrates on firing.   ...MIKE...
  
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John Boy
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Re: Breech seating with wads question
Reply #2 - Jun 4th, 2013 at 8:00am
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Chris, Harry Pope used felt wads cut from old hats.  Though I'll never be a Harry Pope - if it was good enough for him, it's good enough for me also.  I use felt for my breech seated and fixed cartridge reloads for nearly every caliber except 22LR black powder breech seated reloads.  They are capped with a construction paper wad.  At an average 980 fps with pure lead bullets, there is no noticeable accuracy degradation 

  
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40_Rod
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Re: Breech seating with wads question
Reply #3 - Jun 4th, 2013 at 8:56am
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Pope used both felt wads cut from the brims of hats and wads punched from postcards. Card material should be easy to find. If you want to use felt and buying up old hats for the brims seems a little pricey i found a source for a stiff felt that works great. Go to the Gursner web site that's the tool box folks. They sell the felt they use for lining their tool boxes. It is stiff like cardboard and about the same thickness as a postcard. One order should give you a lifetime supply.
Stay away from LDPE wads. I watched a friend ruin a good bench rifle with them. No amount of scrubbing could get the fouling out of the throat. My general rule of thump is to stay away from plastic period. 
40 Rod
  
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Old-Win
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Re: Breech seating with wads question
Reply #4 - Jun 4th, 2013 at 9:39am
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At the time when Pope and other shooters were using the felt and postcard wads, were they still duplexing?  Did they use the wad to hold everything in place or had they moved totally to smokeless by then?  Bob 
  
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Re: Breech seating with wads question
Reply #5 - Jun 4th, 2013 at 9:41am
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40 Rod - Interesting comments on LDPE wads. Was that with BP or smokeless? The reason I ask is any number of good shooters in the BPCR game use LDPE wads with excellent results and I've not heard/read any of them say anything about any downside as pertains to cleaning, etc.
  

Glenn - 2x CPA 44 1/2 w/22LR (Shilen ratchet-rifled & Bartlein 5R rifled), 38-40RH & 38-55WCF (Bartlein 5R rifled) & 40-65WCF (GrnMtn 'X') barrels
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Re: Breech seating with wads question
Reply #6 - Jun 4th, 2013 at 11:58am
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I use LDP wads in my 40/65s with BP and duplex loads.  Never a problem, no fouling, higher scores, yes. That's with fixed ammunition.

When breech seating with BP, I use cork or Walters wads, card wads or styrofoam wads. The styrofoam seems to be the most accurate. Punch them out of plastic targets or plastic dishes. 
Have also had good luck with no wad at all. The difficulty arises when inserting the case in the rifle.  The floral foam wads are to crumbly and hard to handle. 

             Joe.
  

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frnkeore
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Re: Breech seating with wads question
Reply #7 - Jun 4th, 2013 at 1:01pm
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I've used 1/16" LDPE wads since about 1988 for both BP duplex and smokeless. Never had one that melted. They were also used in CBA back in those years (that's how I found out about them) with much higher smokeless pressures and no problems.

Frank
  

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40_Rod
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Re: Breech seating with wads question
Reply #8 - Jun 5th, 2013 at 8:35am
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all I know is the guy showed me some plastic wads he was using said they were LDPE and asked if I wanted to try them. I told him no that I was afraid of plastic fouling in the throat and barrel. He told me LDPE didn't do that and many BPCR people were using it. 
Later that day I found him scrubbing the bore. He told me he had fouling in the throat. He cleaned and scrubbed and brushed Nothing would touch the hard pathces of fouling on the chamber and streaked into the first few inches of the bore. He was done for the day. Long story short by the time he got it cleaned he ruined the barrel. Soaking wouldn't touch it so he started to use more aggressive measures. 
He was shooting AA#9 and Emerts lube. 
This confirmed my distrust of all things plastic. I now use only natural products in my loading cork, Wool felt, cardboard, ect.
40 Rod
  
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John Boy
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Re: Breech seating with wads question
Reply #9 - Jun 5th, 2013 at 10:06am
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Quote:
If you want to use felt and buying up old hats for the brims seems a little pricey i found a source for a stiff felt that works great.

The best quality and cheapest source for purchasing felt is ...
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Asha, the owner has been a friend to us cowboy shooters since about 2003. And her mailings are FAAASST! 

Quote:
At the time when Pope and other shooters were using the felt and postcard wads, were they still duplexing?  Did they use the wad to hold everything in place or had they moved totally to smokeless by then?

Felt and postcards were used by the Schuetzen match shooters during total transition from BP to semi smokeless to smokeless.  Duplexing started with King's and DuPont's Lesmoke.  When pure smokeless can into being, breech seated rounds were capped by felt and other paper sources also
  
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gunlaker
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Re: Breech seating with wads question
Reply #10 - Jun 5th, 2013 at 10:16am
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I've heard a few stories about people having fouling issues with LDPE wads.  I've used a couple of thousand of them with no troubles.   

Chris.
  
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