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AYDT Shcuetzen questions (Read 13865 times)

Water Bug Full Member Offline Posts: 158 Location: north country NYS Joined: Oct 11^th, 2012	AYDT Shcuetzen questions Feb 11^th, 2013 at 1:17pm	Print Post
	I just bought the Schuetzen rifle in the picture. Several questions: Please point me to any threads that have other pictures of similar rifles. Note under barrel markings, there are two sets of proofs and barrel diameters. Does this mean the barrel was bored out and re proofed ? What do the two levers on the side of the action do? help appreciated WB


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feuerbixler Oldtimer Offline Posts: 791 Location: Munich / Bavaria Joined: Apr 23^rd, 2010	Re: AYDT Shcuetzen questions Reply #1 - Feb 11^th, 2013 at 1:48pm	Print Post
	That's a typical "AYDT I" feuerstutzen. They do have the mechanical extractor levers outside the action. Biggi.

	Questions in old German target rifles??? Hhhmm, maybe I can help... ...meanwhile more than 500 quality posts from Bavaria!
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Water Bug Full Member Offline Posts: 158 Location: north country NYS Joined: Oct 11^th, 2012	Re: AYDT Shcuetzen questions Reply #2 - Feb 11^th, 2013 at 4:03pm	Print Post
	Biggi, Thank you. Do you know anything about the maker? WB


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feuerbixler Oldtimer Offline Posts: 791 Location: Munich / Bavaria Joined: Apr 23^rd, 2010	Re: AYDT Schuetzen questions Reply #3 - Feb 11^th, 2013 at 5:37pm	Print Post
	Carl Wilhelm Aydt was one of the most famous makers in the old days. You should read the books of Loos/Rowe/etc. There you can learn everything about the old German manufacturers and the actions they created... ...and you can visit my feuerbixler-homepage to see the Aydt I / Aydt II / Aydt III feuerstutzens and also .22 Aydt action and the Aydt target pistol. Biggi.

	Questions in old German target rifles??? Hhhmm, maybe I can help... ...meanwhile more than 500 quality posts from Bavaria!
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Walter Matera Ex Member	Re: AYDT Shcuetzen questions Reply #4 - Feb 11^th, 2013 at 5:50pm	Print Post
	Damn! Yanno, I'd like one of those.


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feuerbixler Oldtimer Offline Posts: 791 Location: Munich / Bavaria Joined: Apr 23^rd, 2010	Re: AYDT Schuetzen questions Reply #5 - Feb 12^th, 2013 at 3:52am	Print Post
	Water Bug wrote on Feb 11^th, 2013 at 1:17pm: Note under barrel markings, there are two sets of proofs and barrel diameters. Does this mean the barrel was bored out and re proofed ? WB The proofmarks: First proof was in July 1904 and it was written down with the old kind of proof indication for the 8.15 caliber "172.28" and journal-number 626 of the proofhouse. These markings were "deleted" after the rifle got a new barrel. A new barrel was proofed on this rifle with the new caliber proof indication "7,6 mm/46" in July 1930, made by the company of "Udo Anschütz in Zella-Mehlis". Biggi.

	Questions in old German target rifles??? Hhhmm, maybe I can help... ...meanwhile more than 500 quality posts from Bavaria!
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gewehrfreund Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 437 Location: Cortland Joined: Jan 24^th, 2005	Re: AYDT Shcuetzen questions Reply #6 - Feb 12^th, 2013 at 7:57am	Print Post
	Water Bug wrote on Feb 11^th, 2013 at 4:03pm: Biggi, Thank you. Do you know anything about the maker? WB The original maker was in Bonn, the former German capital, and his name was Anton, or Alfred, or Albert, or Adelbert or. . .you get the idea (probably not an Alois, as that's a southern name). Middle name was August and last name Ahl. I'm sure Biggi has a book with him listed as a rifle maker in that era.


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gunlaker Frequent Elocutionist Online Posts: 2331 Location: lower mainland, B.C. Joined: Dec 13^th, 2010	Re: AYDT Schuetzen questions Reply #7 - Feb 12^th, 2013 at 11:32am	Print Post
	feuerbixler wrote on Feb 11^th, 2013 at 5:37pm: Carl Wilhelm Aydt was one of the most famous makers in the old days. You should read the books of Loos/Rowe/etc. There you can learn everything about the old German manufacturers and the actions they created... ...and you can visit my feuerbixler-homepage to see the Aydt I / Aydt II / Aydt III feuerstutzens and also .22 Aydt action and the Aydt target pistol. Biggi. I did not know you had a web site. I've been thinking it would be nice to find a German single shot rifle as all of my relatives are from Germany so it would be fitting. Your site looks like a good place to start learning. I will have to brush up on my German though. We spoke it at home when I was a child but this was 40 years ago and I never learned to read the language. Chris.


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feuerbixler Oldtimer Offline Posts: 791 Location: Munich / Bavaria Joined: Apr 23^rd, 2010	Re: AYDT Shcuetzen questions Reply #8 - Feb 12^th, 2013 at 12:50pm	Print Post
	Hi Chris. Yessss, I have a famous homepage... If you use the google translation tool to read my homepage, don't wonder about some ridiculous sentences: Google is not able to translate the technical terms of shooting and also not the Bavarian dialect, which is used for some expressions. If Google translates "APHID" for the Bavarian word "BLATTL", it means "DEAD CENTER" or "BULLs EYE". And the Google translation "FIRE NOZZLE" means "FEUERSTUTZEN", the old German target rifle. Have fun reading my homepage.... Biggi.

	Questions in old German target rifles??? Hhhmm, maybe I can help... ...meanwhile more than 500 quality posts from Bavaria!
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Borderman Participating Member Offline ASSRA # 10859 Posts: 29 Location: Southern Indiana Joined: Nov 16^th, 2011	Re: AYDT Shcuetzen questions Reply #9 - Feb 12^th, 2013 at 1:09pm	Print Post
	I have passed on bidding on rifles like this one with no rear sight. I have no idea what sight would fit in the square socket. Any enlightenment would be much appreciated.

	Dick
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feuerbixler Oldtimer Offline Posts: 791 Location: Munich / Bavaria Joined: Apr 23^rd, 2010	Re: AYDT Shcuetzen questions Reply #10 - Feb 12^th, 2013 at 2:27pm	Print Post
	Borderman wrote on Feb 12^th, 2013 at 1:09pm: I have passed on bidding on rifles like this one with no rear sight. I have no idea what sight would fit in the square socket. Any enlightenment would be much appreciated. You need a German diopter. But there are a lot of different square sockets, also round-double-sockets, oval sockets and triangular sockets. And the sockets have different diameters. Depends on the maker and the brand... ...but there are often diopters for sale on ebay or other auction houses. One has to reckon with 200-400 $ for a good working and fitting diopter. Biggi.

	Questions in old German target rifles??? Hhhmm, maybe I can help... ...meanwhile more than 500 quality posts from Bavaria!
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feuerbixler Oldtimer Offline Posts: 791 Location: Munich / Bavaria Joined: Apr 23^rd, 2010	Re: AYDT Shcuetzen questions Reply #11 - Feb 12^th, 2013 at 3:34pm	Print Post
	gewehrfreund wrote on Feb 12^th, 2013 at 7:57am: . Water Bug wrote on Feb 11^th, 2013 at 4:03pm: Biggi, Thank you. Do you know anything about the maker? WB The original maker was in Bonn, the former German capital, and his name was Anton, or Alfred, or Albert, or Adelbert or. . .you get the idea (probably not an Alois, as that's a southern name). Middle name was August and last name Ahl. I'm sure Biggi has a book with him listed as a rifle maker in that era. . The only information, which I have of the gunsmith "August Ahl": he was selling target rifles and hunting rifles and his shop was mentioned between 1891 and 1910 in Bonn at the Rhine river. Biggi.

	Questions in old German target rifles??? Hhhmm, maybe I can help... ...meanwhile more than 500 quality posts from Bavaria!
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Walter Matera Ex Member	Re: AYDT Shcuetzen questions Reply #12 - Feb 12^th, 2013 at 5:44pm	Print Post
	Oh now, that's all I need. Another website to obsess over. Biggi, I was stationed in Frankfurt AM back in the very early 70's and became a Germanophile (it was the beer and the blondes!). Those old German target rifles are the one thing I would become a collector of. I'm even considering taking a course in woodcarving so I can try and make my own.


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Water Bug Full Member Offline Posts: 158 Location: north country NYS Joined: Oct 11^th, 2012	Re: AYDT Shcuetzen questions Reply #13 - Feb 12^th, 2013 at 5:48pm	Print Post
	THANK YOU Biggi , and all. LOTS of great useful information. AM now awaiting rifle delivery. It will need some TLC to improve the rust and pitting near the breech. WB


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westerner Frequent Elocutionist Offline deleted posts and threads record holder. Posts: 11523 Location: Why, out West of course Joined: May 29^th, 2006	Re: AYDT Shcuetzen questions Reply #14 - Feb 12^th, 2013 at 6:26pm	Print Post
	Water Bug wrote on Feb 12^th, 2013 at 5:48pm: THANK YOU Biggi , and all. LOTS of great useful information. AM now awaiting rifle delivery. It will need some TLC to improve the rust and pitting near the breech. WB Rust? Pitting? Character. I have some with pipe wrench teeth marks on the barrels. Lot's of character! Joe.

	A blind squirrel runs into a tree every once in a while.
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John Boy Ex Member	Re: AYDT Shcuetzen questions Reply #15 - Feb 12^th, 2013 at 7:53pm	Print Post
	Borderman wrote on Feb 12^th, 2013 at 1:09pm: I have passed on bidding on rifles like this one with no rear sight. I have no idea what sight would fit in the square socket. Any enlightenment would be much appreciated. Call Bill Loos for original Schuetzen diopters and front sights: 295 Lake Breeze Park Rochester, NY 14622-1948 (585) 544-1027 This one that I picked out that Bill had and he fitted to the rifle ... (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links)


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Water Bug Full Member Offline Posts: 158 Location: north country NYS Joined: Oct 11^th, 2012	Re: AYDT Shcuetzen questions Reply #16 - Feb 13^th, 2013 at 8:05am	Print Post
	John Boy, That is a great Diopter sight. I know Bill Loos. Have bought from him before. When I have the rifle, I surely will be contacting him. I am also thinking it would be a fun and challenging project to make such a sight. I have the tools, and think maybe I could do it. Has anyone out there made one like the pictures? WB


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John Boy Ex Member	Re: AYDT Shcuetzen questions Reply #17 - Feb 13^th, 2013 at 9:58am	Print Post
	Water Bug, might want to read this "how to fit a diopter to your Schuetzen Rifle" ... (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links)


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bisaacson Full Member Offline Posts: 170 Location: Kailua Joined: Sep 1^st, 2009	Re: AYDT Shcuetzen questions Reply #18 - Feb 16^th, 2013 at 8:25pm	Print Post
	My Aydt has turned out to be one of my favorite guns. It just happens to fit me, and if you listen to what the gun tells you to do, it should shoot very well. Stop ring moulds are available and once the cases are formed, no work at all to reload - reprime, dump in powder, put the bullet in, and try to keep that little post near your favorite aiming point while just touching the set trigger - lots of fun. If it doesn't fit you, you'll struggle, as some of my friends have found out. Really neat set-ups, though, in any case - wonderful metal and woodwork.


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John Boy Ex Member	Re: AYDT Shcuetzen questions Reply #19 - Feb 17^th, 2013 at 10:54am	Print Post
	Water Bug - have you found any source for bullets and brass for the 7.6X46R caliber? It could be the caliber is obsolete. I looked in Cartridge Conversions and it is not listed, plus an Internet search for the caliber. Again, no hits A 30 caliber bullet could work depending on the groove diameter. As for the brass, only a chamber cast will provide details. Then reforming will be becessary


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Fred Boulton Oldtimer Offline Posts: 801 Joined: Jan 6^th, 2007	Re: AYDT Shcuetzen questions Reply #20 - Feb 17^th, 2013 at 11:58am	Print Post
	7.6 is the bore before rifling. The calibre is better known as 8.15 x 46R. A mould is available (stop ring) from NEL and brass is easily formed from 30-30. Fred


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John Boy Ex Member	Re: AYDT Shcuetzen questions Reply #21 - Feb 17^th, 2013 at 5:01pm	Print Post
	Thanks Fred - was not aware the 2 calibers were the same. That being the case, Water Bug is good to go. Buffalo Arms has brass but are Out of Stock ... (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) and they also have stop ring molds for the 316 and 320 diameter bullets. WB would be best to slug the bore for which mold


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waterman Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2846 Location: Behind the Redwood Curtain Joined: Jun 9^th, 2004	Re: AYDT Shcuetzen questions Reply #22 - Feb 17^th, 2013 at 9:28pm	Print Post
	My Haenel Aydt will swallow most of a 30-30 case without much reforming. I do not see any particular need to go to a commercially reformed case when shooting an Aydt. Some Aydt shooters have better accuracy if they do not shorten the case to the specified length. Try leaving it long and shorten by trial and error. Once you get the length right, then breech-seat the bullets. You can use a plugged case as a breech-seater in an Aydt. You will be surprised at the jump in accuracy once you get away from stop-ring bullets.


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John Boy Ex Member	Re: AYDT Shcuetzen questions Reply #23 - Feb 18^th, 2013 at 8:57am	Print Post
	On the flip side, 30-30 reformed brass in the Aydt I have which has a tight chamber - had to have the web diameter made smaller in order to chamber The BACO reformed cases slide in and extract with no binding Bottom Line - it's rifele dependent as to which case fits the best


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Water Bug Full Member Offline Posts: 158 Location: north country NYS Joined: Oct 11^th, 2012	Re: AYDT Shcuetzen questions Reply #24 - Feb 21^st, 2013 at 12:34pm	Print Post
	Thanks all for the cartridge advice. I have another 8.15X46R rifle, and have reformed and shortened some 30-30 cases to that cartridge size and shape. The 8.15X46R is quite a bit shorter than the 30-30. I do have two bullet molds and so am now just waiting delivery of the rifle. I will then do a chamber cast to REALLY see what it is. The seller said the bore is bright and in excellent condition. It will be interesting. Will post results when I know something. WB


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Water Bug Full Member Offline Posts: 158 Location: north country NYS Joined: Oct 11^th, 2012	Re: AYDT Shcuetzen questions Reply #25 - Feb 21^st, 2013 at 12:37pm	Print Post
	John Boy, Just to get a Ball Park idea of costs: How much was that Diopter rear sight?


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