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Strange Goings On at the Range.....Tumbling bullet (Read 14515 times)

RoyB Oldtimer Online Posts: 835 Location: Dartmouth, MA Joined: Mar 28^th, 2011	Strange Goings On at the Range.....Tumbling bullet Sep 29^th, 2012 at 10:21pm	Print Post
	This week I picked up one of those Lyman "Ideal" Mini Sharps rifles in 38-55 I don't have a mold yet so I bought lead bullets that were cast in a Lyman mold. The folks IO bought the bullets from segregate them by diameter and sell them as such. I bought .377, .378 and .379 diameter. I loaded them over IMR4198 and went to the range.... The .377 shot into a nice 2" group for five rounds at 50yds..... The .378 hit the paper sideways! Tumbling badly. Perfect outline of the bullet in the paper....Five shots, five tumbles! And the .379 shot very nicely into a sub 2" group for 5 rounds...This was the most accurate bullet. Strangest thing I've ever seen. Any ideas what could be causing this. I can't believe .001" could cause such a change.

	Roy B Dartmouth, MA (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links)
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Singleshotlover Oldtimer Offline Posts: 625 Location: New Iberia,Louisiana Joined: Jun 11^th, 2006	Re: Strange Goings On at the Range.....Tumbling bullet Reply #1 - Sep 29^th, 2012 at 11:44pm	Print Post
	Many years ago when I had a trapdoor I was shooting cast bullets. The bullets were undersized for the barrel. You could hear this buzzing noise as they tumbled through the air. Accuracy was non existent. Frank

	Singleshotlover
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JLouis Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 10625 Joined: Apr 8^th, 2009	Re: Strange Goings On at the Range.....Tumbling bullet Reply #2 - Sep 30^th, 2012 at 3:34am	Print Post
	What's your groove diameter, twist rate and bullet length and weight. Also what was your powder charge and bullet alloy. It sounds more like a stability issue than bullet size. J.Louis

	" It Is Better To Now Have Been A Has Been Than A Never Was Or A Wanna Be "
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RoyB Oldtimer Online Posts: 835 Location: Dartmouth, MA Joined: Mar 28^th, 2011	Re: Strange Goings On at the Range.....Tumbling bullet Reply #3 - Sep 30^th, 2012 at 7:00am	Print Post
	But........Exact same bullet...three different diameters. Smaller and larger of the three were fine. The one in the middle tumbles? I'm going to try it again today to see if the same thing happens.

	Roy B Dartmouth, MA (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links)
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RoyB Oldtimer Online Posts: 835 Location: Dartmouth, MA Joined: Mar 28^th, 2011	Re: Strange Goings On at the Range.....Tumbling bullet Reply #4 - Sep 30^th, 2012 at 3:28pm	Print Post
	Well I took the rifle back to the range today. Terrible performance! Everything I loaded in the rifle tumbled. I'm using a Lyman cast bullet, .379 diameter, .989 length, 1500fps... the Lyman catalog says the twist is 1 in 18. But I measured my rifle and it is 1 in 20. If I plug these numbers into a twist formula it should stabilize the bullet. The rifling in this barrel seems very shallow. I pushed a couple of bullets through the bore, There doesn't appear to be any loose or tight spots. When I get a chance I'm going to try some jacketed bullets.

	Roy B Dartmouth, MA (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links)
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JLouis Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 10625 Joined: Apr 8^th, 2009	Re: Strange Goings On at the Range.....Tumbling bullet Reply #5 - Sep 30^th, 2012 at 3:28pm	Print Post
	Being the same bullet with a slight variation in size really has nothing to do with it. If you don't achieve gyroscopic stability the bullet just isn't going to fly point on. There is a very slim chance the bullet didn't have enough time to go to sleep, but I kind of doubt it so you should see what happens at 100 & 200yds. The 38-55 is an extremely accurate round and 2 inches at 50yds is well below it's capabilities. You should be groups under that at 200yds. J.Louis

	" It Is Better To Now Have Been A Has Been Than A Never Was Or A Wanna Be "
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james a pickup Ex Member	Re: Strange Goings On at the Range.....Tumbling bullet Reply #6 - Sep 30^th, 2012 at 3:42pm	Print Post
	i would check to see just how deep the rifling really is.I once owned a 1886 winchester in 45-90, it was a lovely rifle.But it tumbled all the bullets fired in it. I checked it and the rifling was only .001 of an inch deep.I think too many 45-70 jacketed bullets had worn down the rifling,so i sold it.This was many years ago and in those days only .22 rimfires were relined, so i got rid of it.I suppose that's why it was so cheap, there's always a reason.


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QuestionableMaynard8130 Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 4144 Location: Benton Harbor MI Joined: Apr 17^th, 2004	Re: Strange Goings On at the Range.....Tumbling bullet Reply #7 - Sep 30^th, 2012 at 8:46pm	Print Post
	Is the "Lyman Ideal Mini-sharps" one of those down scaled Italian-made repros that have been sold under a number of different names?

	sacred cows make the best burger
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RoyB Oldtimer Online Posts: 835 Location: Dartmouth, MA Joined: Mar 28^th, 2011	Re: Strange Goings On at the Range.....Tumbling bullet Reply #8 - Sep 30^th, 2012 at 9:40pm	Print Post
	Yes, The Lyman Ideal is made by Chiappa in Italy.

	Roy B Dartmouth, MA (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links)
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gunlaker Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2257 Location: lower mainland, B.C. Joined: Dec 13^th, 2010	Re: Strange Goings On at the Range.....Tumbling bullet Reply #9 - Oct 1^st, 2012 at 10:54am	Print Post
	I'm under the impression that the Italian .38-55's have larger bore/groove dimensions than modern .38-55's made in America. Have you slugged the bore? Chris.


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FITZ Oldtimer Offline REGARDS Posts: 917 Location: MASSACHUSETTS Joined: Apr 16^th, 2004	Re: Strange Goings On at the Range.....Tumbling bullet Reply #10 - Oct 1^st, 2012 at 4:59pm	Print Post
	Have you slugged the Bore? Not hard, a soft bullet at the muzzle. Drive-it in with a plastic mallet. Won't damage the bore or the muzzle crown. Push it out from the breech carefully. If you push or drive it hard it will bump on it's way out. Know this sounds strange but soft lead reacts to almost any sudden influence especially impact. HTH, Regards, FITZ

	FITZ
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RoyB Oldtimer Online Posts: 835 Location: Dartmouth, MA Joined: Mar 28^th, 2011	Re: Strange Goings On at the Range.....Tumbling bullet Reply #11 - Oct 2^nd, 2012 at 8:07pm	Print Post
	Yes, I slugged the barrel at .378 groove diameter.

	Roy B Dartmouth, MA (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links)
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gunlaker Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2257 Location: lower mainland, B.C. Joined: Dec 13^th, 2010	Re: Strange Goings On at the Range.....Tumbling bullet Reply #12 - Oct 2^nd, 2012 at 8:47pm	Print Post
	That's pretty odd. The bullet sounds like the right diameter (at least the larger ones you are using), and at under an inch long that's probably not a stability issue I'm guessing. Is there any chance that the bullet bases are getting seriously distorted (or shaved) upon seating? It's pretty easy to do if you have significant neck tension and soft alloy. Chris.


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don1885 Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 386 Location: East Tennessee Joined: Oct 31^st, 2010	Re: Strange Goings On at the Range.....Tumbling bullet Reply #13 - Oct 3^rd, 2012 at 10:12am	Print Post
	Roy, Have you measured and weighed all three sizes to verify the .378's actually fall between the .377's and the .379's? Thinking is: They may have been mislabeled.

	Don ASSRA #10637
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RoyB Oldtimer Online Posts: 835 Location: Dartmouth, MA Joined: Mar 28^th, 2011	Re: Strange Goings On at the Range.....Tumbling bullet Reply #14 - Oct 5^th, 2012 at 10:39am	Print Post
	The saga continues! Went to the range today and set up a target at 50 yards Bought some factory ammo with jacketed bullets. Standing, offhand (the seats were all wet from rain), I shot this 5 shot group. Dang! That Mini Sharps can shoot!!!!! Now I still need to figure out why my lead bullets are tumbling......... (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links)

	Roy B Dartmouth, MA (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links)
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