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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Schuetzen in Slovenia ? (Read 27083 times)
feuerbixler
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Re: Schuetzen in Slovenia ?
Reply #15 - Sep 27th, 2012 at 5:39pm
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And so the Balkan Wars in the beginning 1990s in Yugoslavia had the result, that they came apart into a lot of separate countries: Croatia, Slovenia, Macedonia, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Montenegro and Kosovo. In the old days, these were all separate kingdoms. And now they are separate countries. All with their own history and culture. And all these countries added together have the same surface area size like Wyoming!

BTW: Germany has the same size like Montana - but we have 80.000.000 inhabitants. Montana has the same number of inhabitants like the town of Munich, where I live.

Look on the USSR, after they stopped the communism there, the big and mighty Soviet-Union fell apart into a lot of separate countries. One cannot hold together different tribes and culture - except in a dictatorship.

If you haven't seen Europe, if you did never travel through all these separate countries with different culture and tribes, you cannot understand Europe.

               Biggi.  Smiley
  

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Re: Schuetzen in Slovenia ?
Reply #16 - Sep 27th, 2012 at 7:01pm
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Biggi,   

I would love to sit down over steins of good beer and discuss both political and shooting history of Europe.  I've read and studied a little but you could teach me so very much.  I truly enjoy each and every one of your posts, but especially those of historical interest.

The museum exhibit that DWS referred to was one I was privileged to see in about 2004 or '05.  I was doing some volunteer work rebuilding a church in Brno, CZ Republic and on my time off had time to explore.  The city museum was hosting a temporary ("traveling?") display of targets, prizes, rifles (and some few pistols) and loading equipment for the game of Schuetzen since the earliest use of firearms (and even a couple of crossbow events, IIRC.)  There was a front room that had several large exhibits, then two rooms about 10x25 meters or so filled floor to ceiling with exhibit materials.  I got the impression that it was being carried from city to city for display and was very pleased that although it had been scheduled to have already been gone, it had been held over and I just happened to be there at the right time!  Cheesy

Froggie

PS  The Museum of Technology in Budapest (near Heroes' Square) has a great Hunting display, but there was little on target shooting.  I enjoyed it, but not to the same level, I suppose.
  
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Re: Schuetzen in Slovenia ?
Reply #17 - Sep 28th, 2012 at 3:12pm
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Hi Froggie, yep would be fun to sit together and talk about history in Europe and all the old shooting stuff. Maybe we can do that one day.  Roll Eyes

And this are interesting news, that you had the possibility to visit Europe and Brno, an old German-Austrian town in Slovakia. And that you caught an intersting exhibition!

Nice to hear, that all my efforts to explain Central-European-history and the relation to shooting are welcome to read.

I try to go on with some maps, to clarify the whole situation. I hope my English is good enough to explain the history in short words.

             Biggi.  Smiley

  

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Re: Schuetzen in Slovenia ?
Reply #18 - Sep 28th, 2012 at 3:12pm
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Here is a map, which shows the situation of the area, we call nowadays "Germany". Its in 1648 after Thirty Years' War.

The German Territories were a lot of small kingdoms, duchies, dukedoms, princedoms, electorates, and so on.

A big part of Austria belonged also to German Territories. The red line borders the German Territories. But 300 years before that map, there were much more of these small territories.

As already mentioned, they made the politics by weddings, alliances, and wars.

I think weapons were still forbidden for the people, only the monarchs and sovereigns had weapons. For themselves for hunting and for their soldiers for making wars.
  

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Re: Schuetzen in Slovenia ?
Reply #19 - Sep 28th, 2012 at 3:12pm
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The next map shows the German States in 1814, after Napoleon brought some trouble and wars over Central Europe.

You can see, meanwhile Bavaria ("Bayern") is a kingdom! And the German States have lost territories to Austria and Russia. But there are still a lot of small territories left inside Germany, no union yet. All sovereigns were kings and royals.
  

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Re: Schuetzen in Slovenia ?
Reply #20 - Sep 28th, 2012 at 3:13pm
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After the "Austro-Prussian War" in 1866, which was won by the Prussians at the "Battle of Königgrätz" (nowadays in Czech Republic), Central Europe got new borders. 

The North German Confederation was founded, this was the beginning of the strong Prussian leadership in Central Europe.

Bavaria was not a member of this North German Confederation, Bavaria was always independent. Bavarians never liked the Prussians - not in the old days, and for sure not today! 
Wink  Grin

Bavaria was fighting with the Austrians against the Prussians in this war, after they had to give up their neutrality. 

BTW: In those years, a real big amount of Germans left their country and immigrated to America. The Prussian treatment to their people was real bad, the people had to go hungry, because the Prussian sovereigns needed all the money for their wars. The Prussians liked wars!

In Bavaria, the people didn't like war, also the Bavarian sovereigns and kings didn't like so much the war. And the life was always not bad in Bavaria, because of the mentality of the Bavarians. It was always "Live and let live".

  

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Re: Schuetzen in Slovenia ?
Reply #21 - Sep 28th, 2012 at 3:13pm
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But the next war was already within the range of vision, the "Franco-Prussian War". France declared in 1870 the war on the North German Confederation. But the Prussians overran the French in the "Battle of Sedan", in 1871 they occupied Paris.

But for this war, the North German Confederation, especially the Prussians needed the help, the soldiers and the cannons of the three independent South German States: Bavaria, Württemberg and Baden.

The big manipulator in this war who pulled the strings was Bismarck. He managed all this war-shit.

The Bavarians didn't want to fight with the Prussians, but the Bavarian King Ludwig II needed money to build all these nice royal castles. So he "sold" his kingdom and the soldiers to Prussia. And then the North German Confederation won the war. As a "gratitude" Bavaria belonged since this Franco-Prussian War to the Germany Reich.

This German Reich got after this "Franco-Prussian War" a Kaiser/Emperor. The king of Prussia Wilhelm I was the first Kaiser/Emperor of the German Reich. He was kaiser and king in one person. The enthronement was in Versailles near Paris, this dishonor was another fact that the French were always the enemy of the Germans.

BTW: This was the last war ever, the Germans won!  Shocked

  

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Re: Schuetzen in Slovenia ?
Reply #22 - Sep 28th, 2012 at 3:13pm
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So the Germans with Kaiser Wilhelm were very mighty in Central Europe, also the Empire of Austria-Hungary-Monarchy with their Kaiser/Emperor Franz Joseph I.

In the Europe map 1871-1914 you can see the big territories, which belonged to the empires.

This balances of power brought a period of ca. 40 years without a serious war in Central Europe.

The Austria-Hungary-Empire was real big and covered also the kingdoms along the Adriatic Sea (Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Serbia, Macedonia) nearly till the border of Greece. And also the territories of Italy, Czech and Slovakia belonged to Austria-Hungary. Parts of Poland and Romania too.

These were the borders between 1871 and 1914, and then WWI began. A Serbian killer shot the "Junior-King" of Austro-Hungarian-Empire at Sarajevo in July 1914.

More then 4 years of a terrible war came all over Europe. After WWI, there was no king or kaiser enymore in Germany or Austria. The empires fell apart, after the allied forces defined the new borders. The Treaty of Versailles cut down the number of soldiers, which were allowed, they plundered the countries and the industry.

Central Europe fell in a big depression - no food, no money, no power and no king or kaiser anymore.

BTW: The King of Bavaria Ludwig III never withdraw, he gave Bavaria free for the foundation of a republic. So the Bavarians still have a king, even if he doesn't rules the state. Nowadays he is called "Boss of the royal house of Wittelsbach" and the current boss is "Herzog Franz of Bavaria". If we would have a governing king, he would be the man!



  

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Re: Schuetzen in Slovenia ?
Reply #23 - Sep 28th, 2012 at 3:14pm
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This map showes Europe in the 1920s, after WWI and a lot of new countries and completely different borders.

Germany is still large, but lost a lot of territories in east and west. And alos the overseas territories in Africa and so on. 

Austria is now very small, they had to give up the most of their territories in Europe.

In those "Golden 20s", the Europeans tried to learn "democracy" and live without a king. But the North Germans wanted to get back a mighty Prussia, they wanted to get back a strong leader. 

After the Treaty of Versailles, the Germans were mortified by the French, who got a big revenge in WWI for the lost war in 1870/71. 

And so Hitler with his Third Reich had an easy game, to become the powerful leader for the Germans, which they missed after WWI. He bought back all this militarism and army stuff. The rest of the history and the end of the story we all know...
Sad  Embarrassed

  

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Re: Schuetzen in Slovenia ?
Reply #24 - Sep 28th, 2012 at 3:14pm
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Then we had after WWII a iron curtain and the cold war in Europe. Between 1945 and 1989 the communistic dictatorships were very close to the free western Europe. 

I colored the communistic countries in red in the map, the "striped" countries belonged to the NATO. White countries were neutral.

I grew up so close to the iron curtain. One got used to the facts, that it was very difficult to travel to Eastern Europe. And that it was impossible for the East Europeans to travel to West Europe. And always the danger of the Third World War. All these US atomic weapons here in Germany to defend the freedom. Haha, after an atomic attack, nothing would have been left of Europe! Because Europe is not very large...
  

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Re: Schuetzen in Slovenia ?
Reply #25 - Sep 28th, 2012 at 3:15pm
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Okay, finally the iron curtain fell in 1989 and the big dangerous threat was gone.

Europe and a lot of the former communist states fell apart in the state-borders, which they had decades before as kingdoms. But we had also these terrible Balkan Wars in the 1990s, when Yugoslavia fell apart.

Hhhmm, and nowadays Bavaria as a state of Germany wants to be again separate and independent. Oh these Bavarians! 
Wink

Here you can see, where Slovenia is located (south of Austria) and where you can find Slovakia (east of Austria).

So we are back to the origin topic of the thread...

           Biggi.  Smiley
  

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Re: Schuetzen in Slovenia ?
Reply #26 - Sep 28th, 2012 at 4:15pm
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And that, boys and girls, is why it's going to be hard to find schuetzen in Slovenia.

Biggi, that's about the best compressed telling of 5 centuries of central European history I've come across. I especially liked your editorial additions.
  

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Re: Schuetzen in Slovenia ?
Reply #27 - Sep 28th, 2012 at 4:31pm
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Great history leason, Biggi but, PLEASE no tests. 

I had no idea that there where so many small countrys in Europe and how they moved around. It also gave me a lot better idea of the problems between France and Germany.

Frank
  

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Re: Schuetzen in Slovenia ?
Reply #28 - Sep 28th, 2012 at 6:03pm
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Thanks for your friendly feedback, guys!   Smiley

In my historical ramble through the centuries, I skipped some wars and events. But for getting an overview of the topic, it is real okay. 

I want to add for completion: As you could see now, the territories changed very often, and also the people had to change their homelands - they often were chased out of the country, when the country borders were defined new. Sometimes the people had the choice to stay, but they lost their belongings. And after a relocation to other areas, they also lost everything.

All this happened before the industrial revolution. And before the industrial revolution came over Europe, the people were farmers, soldiers  or nothing - casually spoken. In the real old days, only the royals and dukes and princes and squires were allowed to own rifles.

So in the glory of the Austrian-Hungary-Empire, they had a lot of royal shooting clubs in the big cities. But there were not much big cities, only countryside and small neighborhoods. Mid/end of the 1800s, when industrial revolution came over the empires, also the rich factory owners had rifles. So they were allowed to shoot at the big "better-society-royal-ranges" or going for hunting.

And in Tyrol (west Austria), everybody was allowed to have a rifle since the beginning of 1500s, for practising for defending the country. They had a lot of small shooting ranges in the mountains, only wooden shelters with two or five firepoints. But after WWI and especially WWII, they were very restricted with rifles.

In the south Austrian state Carintha/Kärnten, there is the famous village Ferlach, were they manufactured since the 1500s a lot of important rifles. Also nowadays they are well known for hunting rifles. In 1641 there were 41 gunsmiths working in Ferlach - all over Bavaria there were only 16 gunsmiths in those years. In Ferlach, all the army rifles for Austria-Hungary-Empire were manufactured. But not so much target rifles, more hunting rifles.

« Last Edit: Sep 28th, 2012 at 7:38pm by feuerbixler »  

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Re: Schuetzen in Slovenia ?
Reply #29 - Sep 28th, 2012 at 6:04pm
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And this Austrian Ferlach town is close to the border of Slovenia. Still nowadays the have in Carinthia all roadsigns in both languages, German and Slovenian. The territory surface of Slovenia is the same like New Jersey. But more of the half of the territory is covered with forests, and also some of the High Alps mountains are in Slovenia. And in the old days, there was no industry and only two bigger cities: Laibach/Ljubljana and Marburg/Maribor.  Nowadays they have 2.000.000 Inhabitants, don't think that there were much people living in the old days.

Maybe one can find today in Ljubljana a museum for hunting or shooting. Don't know if they had in the old days a royal shooting range. But like in all of these ex-communist states in eastern Europe, the shooting ranges were torn down after WWII or used for other stuff. I think there was no private shooting allowed after WWII.

In the decades of communism, the east European countries lost a lot of their history and culture.  Undecided  Huh  Shocked

                   Biggi.  Smiley
  

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