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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Restore, recondition... (Read 9476 times)
Kermit1945
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Restore, recondition...
Sep 13th, 2012 at 4:39pm
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...or let it be? I've read some opinions here--and have my own. I found this an interesting read:

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"Speed's fine, but accuracy's final." Bill Jordan
"Anything worth doing is worth doing slowly." Mae West
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Uechi
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Re: Restore, recondition...
Reply #1 - Sep 13th, 2012 at 5:03pm
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A lot of money to make an old gun look new. Why not just buy a new 1886 or repro by one of the Italian gun makers. Sorry I don't see the point. Old with all its warts oozes history a brand new old gun does not. The only exception would be an old firearm in such bad shape it doesn't function or has very little or no collectors value.
  
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marlinguy
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Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

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Re: Restore, recondition...
Reply #2 - Sep 13th, 2012 at 5:11pm
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The answer is not all that simple to me. I have restored guns in my collection, and each was a pretty easy decision based on how bad they were. Each had various issues that made them nearly useless as they were, although not totally without value.
I found a #4 Ballard at a local show that had the barrel drilled out, and an old 3 groove Springfield barrel turned down as a liner. The outside was engraved with an electric engraver, ".30-30 Black Powder". Stocks were ruined from overtightening, and years of poor handling. Pretty easy decision to save the action and original buttplate, and have a new barrel installed, with new wood to make it like new condition. And at the purchase price of $200, I didn't end up in the hole when finished.
Same for a Hepburn that came my way. The receiver was pitted, no wood on it, and the barrel was a replacement. No brainer to finish the barrel, block the receiver, and have it engraved, then put new wood on it, and have everything cased and blued to finish. Another one that I felt I'm not upside down in.
But I also have old singles that have a lot of use (not abuse) and very little finish. I'd never dream of ever refinishing any of them, just because they are either too rare, or too honest to think of changing the way they look.
An old singleshot has to be pretty bad before I'd think of fixing it up. Mostly I get them functioning and make just enough repairs that they look unrestored, and shoot safely.
  

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skratch
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Re: Restore, recondition...
Reply #3 - Sep 13th, 2012 at 5:34pm
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Very interesting read. For me it's a matter of economics. I'll never be able spend big bucks on any firearm but I have what to me is a nice collection. I buy the used but usually not abused ones and refurbish myself except for what I have to have done by a gunsmith, such as bluing. re-ling, etc.
An example, a heavily used AND abused 1st gen 1881 Colt SAA. It had a hole through the barrel for the ejector shroud which was a piece of copper tube with a wood plug, old spring from ? and a nail. Firing pin a ground down 1/4" bolt, no bushing. Brass backstrap from a 1851 Colt Navy, heavy frame pitting, broken springs, buggered screws, etc. etc. Sure it was an original early Colt, at least part of it. 
After LOTS of restoration it became a tight, good shooting revolver though not a collectors piece by any stretch of the imagination. 

John,,,,,
  
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slumlord44
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Re: Restore, recondition...
Reply #4 - Sep 13th, 2012 at 9:08pm
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Just read this myself. Interesting read but I am pretty much in agreement with marlinguy. Can't think of a set of circumstances that would make me want to spend that kind of money to have someone like Turnbull do a total restoration on a gun even if I had the money to blow.
  
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SSShooter
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Re: Restore, recondition...
Reply #5 - Sep 14th, 2012 at 6:17am
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No question to me about doing the restoration. If it is a rifle you want and you can afford, restoring a wonderful piece of American history is the thing to do. Purchasing a modern repro is not the same. Especially foreign-made ones (even though many are fine guns). While I'm not a collector (if I don't shoot it, it goes to a new home). No mark against Turnbull and his crew of artists who do fabulous work, but the owner could have had his 1885 restored for about half that amount by judicious selection of other fine gunsmiths, stock/wood and refinish artists. I'm having a Hepburn restored and have no hesitation in having the work done by several folks who are on this forum or have been recommended by folks here for what I consider more 'reasonable' prices.
  

Glenn - 2x CPA 44 1/2 w/22LR (Shilen ratchet-rifled & Bartlein 5R rifled), 38-40RH & 38-55WCF (Bartlein 5R rifled) & 40-65WCF (GrnMtn 'X') barrels
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boats
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Re: Restore, recondition...
Reply #6 - Sep 16th, 2012 at 8:12pm
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I am with the other guys on restore, if it is not a collector and useful to you to shoot, reasonable restoration is the way to go. 

Piece it out yourself to the gunsmith  finish and stock members on this forum gives a lot of pleasure with exactly what you want resulting. Turn key guys like Turnbull do a nice job, but seems to me it's like buying a shop restored 62 Corvette, nice if you have the money, not as much satisfaction as watching it all come to together

On the other hand I shoot re-creations, CPA' to be specific, and think they are good value too. Same for the US made Sharps High Walls and Ballard's.

Round it out our club matches would not be as well attended as they are without imports.

Pay your money take your choice, any single shot is worth having

Boats
  
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Mike_Hunter
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Re: Restore, recondition...
Reply #7 - Sep 16th, 2012 at 9:34pm
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I see all kinds of guns that come in the shop for restorations ranging from the guy that wants an example of an old Winchester but can’t afford the 15-20k + for one, to the guy that has a very unique gun but sometime  in it’s life someone did something dumb to it. 
Restorations are done for all sorts of reasons.
Quite a few are family heirlooms, “it was dads, but back about 30 years ago, and my brother borrowed it and left it in his pickup. I would like to have it restored and give it back to my dad”.

Lots of chopped barrels, about a year ago I had to make a new barrel for a REAL 1 of 1000, model 1873. Someone decided to shorten the original. 

Or how about a factory engraved 1894 that someone drilled & tapped for a scope mount, right thru the engraving.

Minty 1885 that letters with rare 30 inch #3 barrel, matted and no rear sight,  yet someone decided to put a 26 inch #2 barrel on it. 

1892 carbine that letters with a very rare 14 inch trapper barrel, someone decided that it would look better with a 20 inch barrel on it. 

Very rare 1886 in 50-100-450, that some hack gunsmith did a buff and blue job on. 

Do these guns deserve some sort of restoration…? Or are they now destined to be parts guns…or “Frankenguns” ?

Mike
  

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marlinguy
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Ballards may be weaker,
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Re: Restore, recondition...
Reply #8 - Sep 16th, 2012 at 9:45pm
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Those are all great examples of guns I would consider NEED to be restored Mike! Anything that rare will command preimiums, but only if it's in the original configuration. Once the hacks have had at them, the value plummets. Bringing them back to original finish and configuration is preserving the history of that gun.
And bringing any family heirloom back to original so it can be returned to the owner, is hard to put a price on. Those situations fall outside the norm in my way of thinking, and are not dictated by cost or value.
  

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escopeta
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Re: Restore, recondition...
Reply #9 - Sep 30th, 2012 at 1:28pm
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I recently picked up a CPA that had not been fired. It is in.219 Wasp Short and came with a Lyman Super Targetspot 20x.
Prepared some cases and loaded up some of the new CFE223 powder behind 53 Hornady A-max. Running 3550FPS this rifle shot 5 shots into 1/4" consistently. Took it up to 3700 fps, but thought the pressure was getting high. Still shot into less than 1/2".
Have had Ruger and Colt Sharps, but none ever shot this good.
  
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boats
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Re: Restore, recondition...
Reply #10 - Sep 30th, 2012 at 2:24pm
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Look at the results from almost any single shot match, lot of CPA's and always near the top of scores. Others good too, CPA's good as any.

It's a strong action not a lot of slop or vibration to cause trouble, and a good trigger.  Add a quality barrel & scope not much else needed to shoot well.

Boats

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screwloosetc
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Re: Restore, recondition...
Reply #11 - Sep 30th, 2012 at 10:20pm
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I just had my 22rf pump guns relined to restore the acuracy they had when new. I think the TJ liners have these rifles better than when new. I can now hit anything i can see with either rifle. I will leave the exteriors alone as they show the character of their age. I also have some new repro SS rifles.  I think the pump 22s at the plinking range are more fun than I have had in a long time.
Tom
  
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QuestionableMaynard8130
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Re: Restore, recondition...
Reply #12 - Oct 1st, 2012 at 12:53pm
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Each situation is unique. There is no rule of thumb.  you have to figure in the raw economics of value and cost and then the intangibles.
To me it might be a buggerd up old beater generic deer rifle.  but it it had been your great granddads and it had passed down through the family some sort of restoration might make sense.  One of my buddies had that done. the  cost was several x the book value of the rifle had it been in mint condition,  but he and the family are overjoyed.
  Now it it turned out the be one documented and owned by Clyde Barrow too, and your grand daddy was Bill Jordan's dad, a restoration by a recognized respected resto-shop to the way it looked when he had it, all properly documented makes sense.
  TV or web-cnn showed a old largeframe Colt DA revolver with the cutaway trigger guard  (a la' Fitz-special) that belonged to him and was in the ambush car.  No one in their right mind would have that frame and trigger-guard restored to factory configuration.

like I said no rule of thumb and lots of factors the consider
  

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boats
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Re: Restore, recondition...
Reply #13 - Oct 1st, 2012 at 5:28pm
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Heard on the Radio today Clyde Barrows "Colt 1911 45 Revolver" was sold for 1/4 million dollars at auction

Bonnie's 38 Colt Revolver carried in a leg holster with a piece of her Nylon stockings same sort of price..

Then there is Annie Oakley's Marlin 39 the actual gun she owned, sold for high dollar, and made after she died

Buyer beware

Boats
  
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QuestionableMaynard8130
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Re: Restore, recondition...
Reply #14 - Oct 2nd, 2012 at 8:51am
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Boats, there were two Clyde Colts;   a 1911, and the "Fitz-Special" in his belt (and it may have been one of those big frame 45 DA revolvers  1917? or were those the S&Ws)  I assume the Auction-house knew what they had,  but the media-----oh well Shocked
if Bonnie hadn't had the "dick special" "strapped to her inner thigh"  wo-o-o-o-o-o   there'd probably have been no story
  

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