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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) help id this old Ballard rifle (Read 20175 times)
marlinguy
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Re: help id this old Ballard rifle
Reply #15 - Sep 18th, 2012 at 11:47am
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I don't see any pictures of your breechblock with the number on it? Ballard breeechblocks were usually serial numbered on the rear tangs of the block halves. If the 110 number is there, then the block halves are not original to your gun.
  

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archer3d
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Re: help id this old Ballard rifle
Reply #16 - Sep 18th, 2012 at 6:06pm
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above the firing pin is the last 3 digits of the serial number under the firing pin locking pin is 110
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this also shows up on several other parts that also have the serial nimber

thank you 
tom
  
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archer3d
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Re: help id this old Ballard rifle
Reply #17 - Sep 18th, 2012 at 6:14pm
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Marlinguy If I am understanding what you are saying "not always the case LoL" the breach block on some is in 2 pieces, mine is one solid cast piece, please correct me if I am wrong.

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tom
  
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John Boy
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Re: help id this old Ballard rifle
Reply #18 - Sep 18th, 2012 at 8:27pm
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Tom, call Kim Boyd, Editor of the Single Shot Exchange and order these back issues (803)628-5326:
* August 2011 - Ball & Willuams, Civil War Era Ballard Sporting Rifle
* September 2011 - Another Ball & Williams, Civil War Era Ballard Sporting Rifle
* October 2011 - A Ball & Williams, Civil War Era Ballard Kentucky Pattern Musket
* Optional: May 2012 - A Brown Manufacturing Co Ballard Rifle, Converted into a Sporting Rifle
Each article includes the history description of each B&W rifle type, patents, complete rifle description details, address stamps, diagrams and pictures

I'm going to let you study the articles because I see variations from the pictures you posted, ie. hammer and number of barrel bands for starters though the Civil War Era Ballard Musket Converted and Sporting Rifle are the only models with a manually spring activated extractor forearm lever in 46 caliber.

Might add, there are no other published Ballard reference sources as detailed as these by William Roth, my best friend, now deceased
« Last Edit: Sep 18th, 2012 at 10:46pm by »  
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marlinguy
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Re: help id this old Ballard rifle
Reply #19 - Sep 20th, 2012 at 12:28pm
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Had to do some research to figure out what you might have for sure. From what I have found your B&W is a very early model built prior to the external extractor, and also prior to the split breechblock that was found on all later Ballards.
It appears the forearm may have been replaced, as the early forearms for internal extractors was not cut like your's is. I'd also guess that the 101 number stamped under the serial number was added by someone later. The font is much different than typical size used for all the other serial number stamps, and may be for some gunsmith or armorer to identify the part somehow.
From what I've read in Dutcher's book the carbines and factory modified sporting rifles sold to Kentucky were all round barrels, so it appears they didn't purchase any half octagon barreled Ballards as your's is configured.
  

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archer3d
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Re: help id this old Ballard rifle
Reply #20 - Sep 20th, 2012 at 7:04pm
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Thank you Marlinguy, I have taken a few more pics to give more detail to the fore-stock

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the extractor is detailed here, I believe it has been modified from the original 
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the breech block 
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thank you 
tom
  
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archer3d
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Re: help id this old Ballard rifle
Reply #21 - Sep 20th, 2012 at 7:06pm
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John Boy  thank you for that info I will try to email him to see what it would cost to ship it Canada 

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tom
  
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marlinguy
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Re: help id this old Ballard rifle
Reply #22 - Sep 20th, 2012 at 8:24pm
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With the mismatch on the serial number located on the forearm, and the epoxy filler, it shows the wood was on a gun with external extractor.
Interesting to see the "110" number on the flat spring under the extractor. Maybe that's what ties the "110" to the gun; the modified extractor.
  

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archer3d
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Re: help id this old Ballard rifle
Reply #23 - Sep 20th, 2012 at 9:07pm
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Actually the forearm has the matching serial number at the front of it

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Tom
  
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marlinguy
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Re: help id this old Ballard rifle
Reply #24 - Sep 21st, 2012 at 11:41am
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Quote:
Actually the forearm has the matching serial number at the front of it

Thanks
Tom



???? Looks like 789 on the breechblock, and 762 on the forearm. Is there another serial number on the forearm? If so, I'd guess it was added when the forearm was put on this gun.
  

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archer3d
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Re: help id this old Ballard rifle
Reply #25 - Sep 22nd, 2012 at 9:40am
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Marlinguy the pictures are not doing Justis to the numbers. they are all 782. The 110 has me puzzled, if it is from a gunsmith who did later work on it why would it be on everything but the barrel, even the but plate has both numbers

the firing pin looks to be for a center fire but seems to be very large. Is that typical of these old beauties?

thank you 
tom

  
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frnkeore
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Re: help id this old Ballard rifle
Reply #26 - Sep 22nd, 2012 at 3:12pm
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Large firing pins are typical for BP rifles but, CF is not for Civil War weapons. I don't know the date that the first CF was produced but, I thought it was after the Cilil War.  I would guess that the CF configuration is later than when the rifle was first made.

Frank
  

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marlinguy
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Re: help id this old Ballard rifle
Reply #27 - Sep 22nd, 2012 at 7:35pm
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I would guess the large firing pin will still strike the edge of the cartridge, but only way to tell is to examine where it's located in relation to the chamber. It looks too large to make proper contact with a CF cartridge, but would work with a RF cartridge.
As for the 110 number, it isn't unheard of for an armorer to mark parts with separate numbers, so that he knows what he's addressed during inspections or repairs. If this gun was part of a arsenal in a security company, bank, militia, etc. it might explain the extra nummbers. 
Since we have no history on the gun, it's hard to explain things like the extra number, or the external extractor cutout in the wood, but an internal extractor. Possibly when it was altered, the gunsmith was marking parts as a normal procedure? 
Wish I could come up with a better guess, but I'm kinda stumped.
  

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MerwinBray
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Re: help id this old Ballard rifle
Reply #28 - Dec 1st, 2012 at 9:53am
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That block is interesting. My one piece block has a slot for the hammer nose to fall through to strike the rim. Your block appears to not have the slot, but only a hole for the pin to pass through. It may be that from age and picture quality we just can't see the part of the hammer nose slot that is filled by some metal? I have never seen or heard of a one piece that has a center fire pin that didn't show modification of that slot. I like this gun. Neat find. I love the old early examples of experimentation and progress.
If you ever take that hammer out would it be possible to make a photo copy of it  next to a ruler and post it or send me a copy? I have inquired many times over the years to see a solid one piece block hammer and to date, have never seen one I could copy and make. Tons from the two piece. I own a few of those hammers, but the one piece has to be slightly different. The two piece hammer won't fit into the alotted hammer space of a one piece block. I just want to see the difference someday. Not asking you to take yours out, I have to imagine it is a pain to get it back in, but if you ever DO take it apart for your own purpose..... Smiley

Merwinbray
  

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archer3d
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Re: help id this old Ballard rifle
Reply #29 - Dec 1st, 2012 at 10:04am
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Taking the hammer out is not difficult give me a couple of days and I should be able to get some detail pic's and specs for you
  
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