Well..in light of the recent Ballard failure at the Quigley I decided it was time to remove the 44 caliber barrel from my gun and do a serious inspection of my No. 2 rifle.

As mentioned before, this gun was re-barrelled at some point long ago and chambered for what looked to be .444 Marlin when I got it from a gentleman in Sprigfield, Oregon.I have always been very careful not to get carried away, using only BP, but even so recent events got me to thinking it was seriously over-chambered and not a good idea.I've had a lot of fun shooting it for over 20 years with nary a peep of trouble, but once I looked into the cavity of the frame under the bbl threads a chill went down my spine.

The casting core design of this frame has a bump on it, directly under the area that must be bored and threaded to fit a barrel.That bump literally guarantees a crack will eventually occur in this area. On my rifle, which is still correctly threaded at .950" x 18 tpi you can actually see daylight where the major diameter of the threads were cut right through this  area..

There is a  visible crack .500" long running through the 6 o'clock area of the barrel threads, which was probably there from day one, and obviously when the gun was re-barreled.Draw your own conclusions, but it is my opinion at this point that many of these cast frame guns left the factory like this, no machinist could fail to see the situation as it happened.

This is a fine old action, in otherwise excellent shape with one of the nicest triggers I've had the pleasure to pull.I may well make up a 22lr barrel for it after I get over the initial fright, or I may not.I suppose it could be welded up, but have yet to find a welder willing to do work inside my other cast Ballard frame, no less this one.Mr. Nagel politely declined Please see the photos, if you have a cast frame ballard, you might want to take a look in there!

Bluesman, feeling very blue.

Bluesman,

Thank you very much for that. 

I rebarreled my very early #2 more than sixteen years ago, from 32 cal to 25/20SS but, I didn't see a crack on mine. I have a late #2 in 32/40 that I'll have to take a look at. I bought it that way (thought it was a #4).

I wouldn't be afraid to rebarrel that to 22rf.

Frank

frnkeore wrote on Jul 9^th, 2012 at 12:26pm:


Frank, have you slugged the bore on the .32-40? Some are rechambered .32 Long, while some I've observed were reabrreled with the correct bore size for .32-40 cal.

Bluesman,
Is it an illusion, or do I see signs of a crack at the top of the forearm alignment hole in the front of the receiver? Looks like something at 12 o'clock from the hole upwards. Might just be the index mark for the barrel though.

I've got a few from all generations, but haven't looked inside the cast actions in quite some time. I guess I should take some time and pull the breech blocks on 8-10 of them and see if anything changed from the #1 to the late #2 or #3 actions.
Don't think I'll remove any barrels though!

The real fault in this is Marlin,i'm sure that Marlin, like Winchester, hired foreman who "Payed by the piece" to the machinests.If the frame had a crack in it, after the Barrel was screwed in, no one would be the wiser.Except someone who was blownup 125 years later.

Bluesman,

It's not just Marlin's and it's not just Ballards, I recall a Sharps Borchardt action that my dad bought many years ago, that had cracks all over it. Fortunately it was never barreled up.

Schutzenbob wrote on Jul 10^th, 2012 at 2:25am:


Hello Bob,

Are you sure that they are cracks you saw in the Borchards Action? These actions were drop forged and in the process of heating them to a high temperature scale was formed on the exterior of the metal blocks. When drop forging took place this scale was frequently bent and twisted on edge. I have seen dozens of pictures of various SS actions of the 1870's to the early 1900's where this scale is apparent. It cannot be eliminated and most drop forged actions show signs of this scale which can, at a casual glance, be mistaken for a crack or cracks.

Harry

frnkeore wrote on Jul 9^th, 2012 at 8:51pm:


I'm flattered that you think I can remember over a few days Frank! But now that you mention it, I do remember you posting that info on your gun! Thanks for the jog!

Well, I don't have a basement full of nice ballards like Val, but I'm a bit more curious, so I went down to the shop and took 2 that I have apart to see.  Less than 10 minutes to take one down and remove the barrel.

The scary thing is that if you don't really know what you're doing, there's no apparent reason to avoid a cast action.  I have what is probably a #2 in rimfire .22.  400 serial #.  I compared it to a pacific in the 12000 range.

Here's the pacific, it left the factory as a .45-70:

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Here's the #2 rimfire .22:

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The cast #2 looks like a better action to build a rifle on than the pacific.  Looks solid and sound and strong enough, in good shape, still visible case colors.  Easy to see how people get suckered into doing it.

Notes to compare to the rest of this thread:

No crack or thin spot on either action in the threads.  No cracking at the block mortise on either thread.  

dave

Wow...the plot thickens! I notice that the cast No.2 you show is also an early gun, but the frame is rebated which would indeed make it a wee bit thinner at the barrel hole.

Interesting stuff...would love a shot of the inside under the threads just to see if the core form used was alot different.

Also, have to agree with Kootne..the loads I was shooting in my old girl were exactly as he described.. heavier, slightly larger diameter bullet over maybe  10% more powder than it should have been.No cracks other than the one in the barrel threads though.

This is a fascinating thread,I hope it keeps going with more pictures and information...

Bluesman