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dogman
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Alloy for cast bullets????
Feb 5th, 2012 at 9:05am
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Sorry for all the questions....But I feel sometimes on here I can get a better understanding of things,better than by just reading about it..

I have to admit that a few years ago befor my heart attack I had played around with the black powder and cast bullets,not really getting any results to brag about..And I used about anything I could get my crubby hands on to make bullets...
I sold all my casting stuff and basicly gave it up...So now that I am trying again,I am buying the bullets make of 1 in 20 alloy...I haven't tried any yet due to the cold temps...
Anyway on to what I wanted to ask...Are you guys getting better results with the softer alloy or are you into the harder bullets.....Sorry for being so long winded....John  Alpine ny Cheesy
  
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MIKE-T
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Re: Alloy for cast bullets????
Reply #1 - Feb 5th, 2012 at 9:19am
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dogman I'm using 25:1 purchased alloy (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links) for my 7mm & 32 caliber breech seated match bullets & 20:1 in my 25-20SS & 40/65W bullets for fixed ammo. I use what ever I get FREE and melts & casts well for most all other bullet casting (pistol, bolt actions and lever's)!
Had accuracy problems with my own mixed alloys from one batch to the next that is why I went to rotometals alloys, sign up for their emails as they have specials quite often so you can save money on shipping and price of alloy.
Mike
  
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JackHughs
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Re: Alloy for cast bullets????
Reply #2 - Feb 5th, 2012 at 10:42am
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Quote:
Sorry for all the questions....But I feel sometimes on here I can get a better understanding of things,better than by just reading about it..

I sold all my casting stuff and basicly gave it up...So now that I am trying again,I am buying the bullets make of 1 in 20 alloy...I haven't tried any yet due to the cold temps...
Anyway on to what I wanted to ask...Are you guys getting better results with the softer alloy or are you into the harder bullets.....Sorry for being so long winded....John  Alpine ny Cheesy


For Black Powder and Schuetzen muzzle velocities (app. 1100 to 1500 fps),  the softer alloys are almost universally favored.  At least 99% of the thousands of plain base bullets I've cast over the past twelve years have been 1/20 alloy, All purchased from Arthur Green, and I've had no problems.

That said, there is a potential advantage in having a range of soft alloys available.  By varying the amount of tin in the alloy, you can "adjust" a bullets as-cast diameter by 1/2 thousandth or so.  That can help achieve a more precise fit between that bullet and the throat of a particular rifle.

Above 1500 fps, I use straight linotype with gas checks.  I've had random encounters with "mystery metal" from time-to-time and it's never been a pleasant experience. 

JackHughs   
  

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boats
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Re: Alloy for cast bullets????
Reply #3 - Feb 5th, 2012 at 4:02pm
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Roto Metals and 1/25 for me, if any different I would go softer not harder

Boats
  
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Cat_Whisperer
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Re: Alloy for cast bullets????
Reply #4 - Feb 5th, 2012 at 6:59pm
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boats wrote on Feb 5th, 2012 at 4:02pm:
Roto Metals and 1/25 for me, if any different I would go softer not harder

Boats


That is one small piece of info that would be very interesting to note across the board in our matches.

Is there a correlation between mixtures/hardness and scores.

Should be included in the equipment lists submitted with the scores and published on the board and in the Journal.
  

Cat Whisperer (trk)
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JLouis
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Re: Alloy for cast bullets????
Reply #5 - Feb 5th, 2012 at 9:06pm
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I have been doing some extensive alloy hardness testing for quite some time of which just recently ended. I have found that the harder alloys tend to provide smaller group sizes if leading does not become an issue. For those who might want to give it a run for the money, I highly recommend giving 1-16 and 1-18 a serious try. I made it all the way up to a BHN of 11.7 and the accuracy was remarkable but unfortunately after about 6 or 7 shots so was the leading. I have now returned to and have settled on 1-16 for my own personal use.

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Cat_Whisperer
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Re: Alloy for cast bullets????
Reply #6 - Feb 5th, 2012 at 9:22pm
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Can I assume that harder alloys are better for the smaller diamters?

  

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JLouis
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Re: Alloy for cast bullets????
Reply #7 - Feb 5th, 2012 at 10:18pm
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CW I have no expertise in anything smaller than 32cal. and as I am not trying to just rack up meaningless posts but just the opposite I will graciously bow out of the conversation. 

J.Louis
  

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JackHughs
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Re: Alloy for cast bullets????
Reply #8 - Feb 6th, 2012 at 12:57am
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Cat_Whisperer wrote on Feb 5th, 2012 at 9:22pm:
Can I assume that harder alloys are better for the smaller diamters?


Harder alloys are better for higher chamber pressures and higher muzzle velocities.  Because the torque applied to a bullet from the rifling decreases as the bullet diameter decreases, a softer alloy will work just fine for smaller diameter bullets - provided the MV stays below 1500 fps.

JackHughs
  

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boats
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Re: Alloy for cast bullets????
Reply #9 - Feb 6th, 2012 at 6:02am
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Yes harder for faster.  CBA it used to be most winning 30 caliber cast bullets were gas checked and moving about 1600 fps.

Rule of thumb has been larger slower cast bullets soft.  Push it fast or go with a smaller bullet  you need to use a harder alloy or protect the base with a copper gas check.

Boats
  
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John Boy
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Re: Alloy for cast bullets????
Reply #10 - Feb 6th, 2012 at 1:51pm
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Quote:
Are you guys getting better results with the softer alloy or are you into the harder bullets


Last year, I cut over from my normal 1:20 and 1:30 bullets to this:
7 parts Pb and 3 parts Lyman #2 using WW's that have a Bhn of 15.4

Why? Dan Theodore did an article in BPC News about using a Pb: Sn: Sb alloy bullets that will be longer engraved on the bullet noses of 45 caliber reloads.
So why not try it for 38 & 32 caliber reloads

The alloy is 97-1.5-1.5
The initial Bhn is 8.2
After 18 hrs the Bhn is 9.8

I have shot this alloy in 32-40, 8.15x46R, 38-55, 45-70 and 45-90 with no leading.  They are accurate for good groups but I have not done any reload comparisons of the 7:3 to the normal alloys usually used

And could the old time cartridge manufacturers have been wrong casting 1:11 and 1:14 alloy bullets for Match reloads of the 45-70's?
  
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frnkeore
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Re: Alloy for cast bullets????
Reply #11 - Feb 6th, 2012 at 3:18pm
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I've used everything from 16 - 30/1 for CF. I recently tried 16/1 with a GC bullet BSed at 1600+ fps and got 1/2" group @ 100.

Jan has a good point about adjusting bullet size with alloy and you might even stop tipping if it isn't to bad. 30/1 will give a heavier bullet than 20/1 and a heavier bullet for the same length will stabilize better. That applys especially to 45 cal bullets.

As for accuracy, I really haven't found much difference from 20 to 30/1. BUT, with Jan's group, I think I'll try 20 for my next couple of batches Smiley

Frank
  

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