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SchwarzStock
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Duplex - No Swiss available
Feb 1st, 2012 at 12:33pm
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All I can get locally is Schuetzen BP and am getting terrible fouling in my 50-90. Tried all the usual tricks. Accuracy is great as long as I wipe between each shot. Anyone duplexed the 50-90 using unique?

SS
  

If your rifle is not in 7.62 and you can't hit what you are aiming at with de-linked machinegun ammo you are a pretender.
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frnkeore
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Re: Duplex - No Swiss available
Reply #1 - Feb 1st, 2012 at 1:59pm
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I still use FG Goex BP. I don't have a 50 caliber of any kind, though I used to want one. Untill i screwed my should up with the 45/70.

If you are using a relatively strong rifle, here is what I'd do............ My all time favorite duplex powder is 4759 because it's a uncoated powder and ignites well. I also only use 2 1/2 Rem primers with it. Although I have used 296 (45/70) and 4227. I only recommend the 10 - 15% with powders in this burn rate range. 

Start at 10% (in your case 9 gr) and work up to 15% (13.5 gr). 15% is the limit on ASSRA's BP rules. 

You should be able to shoot w/o wiping at 10% but, I've not dealt with Schuetzen powder or the 50/90 so, you'll have to try it out.  

Frank
  

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boats
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Re: Duplex - No Swiss available
Reply #2 - Feb 2nd, 2012 at 1:25pm
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All I use is Goex, it's easy to buy around here. Anything else is a problem.   Franks duplex method is exactly what I do when duplexing.

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SchwarzStock
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Re: Duplex - No Swiss available
Reply #3 - Feb 2nd, 2012 at 2:18pm
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Although Goex seems to burn a little cleaner I still have fouling issues here in Southern AZ. Over 20 years living in Europe spoiled me...

Guess I'll have to buy a different can of powder unless I can use 4064.

SS
  

If your rifle is not in 7.62 and you can't hit what you are aiming at with de-linked machinegun ammo you are a pretender.
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Re: Duplex - No Swiss available
Reply #4 - Feb 2nd, 2012 at 4:38pm
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Goex fowls now doubt about it.  To get best results Breech seating my Schuetzen I wipe the bore every shot. Muzzle loading Minne Ball rifle the bullet scrapes the fowing down as you seat the bullet. 

Am working on Duplex for Lever actions than have to run a 10 or 15 shot relay with no time to wipe.  So far it's working well considering the rifle and bore it's used with

Others may fowl less than Goex but can't imagine they fowl so little the bore can go without wiping for accurate work. Might be wrong never use anything but Goex

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John Boy
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Re: Duplex - No Swiss available
Reply #5 - Feb 2nd, 2012 at 6:44pm
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All I can get locally is Schuetzen BP and am getting terrible fouling in my 50-90. Tried all the usual tricks. Accuracy is great as long as I wipe between each shot.

SS, how about some more details:
* Where is the fouling issue?  Near the chamber or near the muzzle?
* How many rounds for a shot string due you expect before you patch?  
* Have you considered blow tubing instead of patching? 
*  What is the usual Relative Humidity and Temperature when you have "terrible fouling"?  The issue could be due to the RH when it is 40% or less because as you know BP is hygroscopic and insufficient moisture is not entering the bore to moisten the foul
*  Details needed of the reloads that relate to the issue:  Primer - powder weight and granulation  - wad type -the bullet - alloy/weight and the lube you are using?  In addition are the cases annealed?  

Schuetzen powder made by Wano in Germany uses subcontracted Alder Buckthorn - the best wood for charcoal there is and in 2009 Wano reformulated their processing procedures to produce powder with an 8 - 10% velocity

I shoot a lot of Schuetzen in 45-70 and 45-90 reloads.  No I can't run 20-30 rounds in a shot string but have no accuracy degradation out to 500 meters with up to 5 rounds with good humidity - above 60%.  When I'm shooting 1000yds, I blow tube after every shot:  5 blows with high humidity and 10 blows with low humidity.

Why some many questions?  Because there are many factors other than powder that can cause 'terrible fouling'

I have no issues with my Schuetzen 45-70 & 45-90 reloads 

PS:  Based on multiple factors, you could have poor fouling with Swiss too.  I have when using FFFg 45-90 reloads in low humidity.  
  
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John Boy
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Re: Duplex - No Swiss available
Reply #6 - Feb 2nd, 2012 at 6:55pm
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All I can get locally is Schuetzen BP and am getting terrible fouling in my 50-90. Tried all the usual tricks. Accuracy is great as long as I wipe between each shot.

SS, how about some more details:
* How many rounds for a shot string due you expect before you patch?  
* Have you considered blow tubing instead of patching? 
*  What is usual Relative Humidity and Temperature when you have "terrible fouling"?  The issue could be due to the RH when it is 40% or less because as you know BP is hygroscopic and insufficient moisture is not entering the bore to moisten the foul
*  Details needed of the reloads that are causing the issue.  Primer - powder weight and granulation  - wad type - the bullet -  alloy and the lube you are using?  In addition are the cases annealed?  

Schuetzen powder made by Wano in Germany uses subcontracted Alder Buckthorn - the best wood for charcoal there is and in 2009 Wano reformulated their processing procedures to produce powder with an 8 - 10% velocity increase

I shoot a lot of Schuetzen in 45-70 and 45-90 reloads.  No I can't run 20-30 rounds in a shot string but have no accuracy degradation out to 500 meters with 5 shots in the string.  When I'm shooting 1000yds, I blow tube after every shot:  5 blows with high humidity and 10 blows with low humidity.

I have no issues with my Schuetzen 45-70 & 45-90 reloads
« Last Edit: Feb 2nd, 2012 at 7:05pm by »  
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zrifleman
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Re: Duplex - No Swiss available
Reply #7 - Feb 3rd, 2012 at 12:47am
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Unique is definitely too fast for duplexing BP. I used to think 4759 was a good choice but changed my mind when I got flat primers and sticky cases with as little as 5 grs. My favorite for 30 yrs is IMR 3031.
  
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SchwarzStock
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Re: Duplex - No Swiss available
Reply #8 - Feb 7th, 2012 at 9:38am
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The fouling runs from just past the chamber out to the muzzle with leading starting at the muzzle with the 2nd or 3rd round but with a 28 inch barrel I should not be running out of lube (SPG). I have not considered a blow tube for my hunting rifle. Once we reach 75 F. I start to have problems with the very dry air here. In the winter I can run strings as long as 10 shots at times without problem(no wiping). Cases are annealed Starline, 20-1 515 Gr Lyman bullet, Fed 210's.

I do no know a single rifleman in Germany using Wano (Schuetzen). The biggest use for it is in signal/salute guns.

So I guess no one has a duplex load for 50-90. I assembled 20 rounds on Sunday using 5grs of 5744 with 85gr of Goex 1. We'll see how this shoots next Sunday.

SS
  

If your rifle is not in 7.62 and you can't hit what you are aiming at with de-linked machinegun ammo you are a pretender.
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