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pjogrinc
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Gas check bullets in old 1890s soft steel barrel
Nov 22nd, 2011 at 2:51pm
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Will a gas checked bullet wear the rifling in these soft steel barrel rifles ??
  
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frnkeore
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Re: Gas check bullets in old 1890s soft steel barrel
Reply #1 - Nov 22nd, 2011 at 3:27pm
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In my oppinion, no they won't but, in some actions like the 44 Stevens, they aren't needed because you can't utilize the pressure advantage. Ideal used to advertize that they didn't wear barrels as a selling feature.

Frank
  

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Re: Gas check bullets in old 1890s soft steel barrel
Reply #2 - Nov 23rd, 2011 at 9:26am
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Don't know what you are shooting however never short for words.

Like Frank my opinion is gas checks are useful for cast in high velocity small bores.  Perhaps 1600 fps and over calibers under .30  Any of the common single shot calibers are better served with plain based lead. Fewer variables and a lot less trouble to prepare. Plain base skips a whole preparation step.

Will they wear a barrel out ? not likely you could shoot enough soft copper gas checks to make any noticeable wear in 19th century  cartridge rifles. 

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40_Rod
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Re: Gas check bullets in old 1890s soft steel barrel
Reply #3 - Nov 24th, 2011 at 7:44am
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Don't know what your up to but gaschecks have no useful purpose in a single shot. If you are using them to protect the base so you can use larger amounts of slower powder you will tax the steel in the barrel and, probably over time ring it. Also unless the firing pin is properly bushed you will get flow back the primer into the firing pin hole. Yes it will ware  down the barrel faster than plain based lead. It will just do it slower than a full metal jacket. Think of it as just using a smaller piece of sandpaper on that stock. It will still sand down the wood it will just take longer. 
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Re: Gas check bullets in old 1890s soft steel barrel
Reply #4 - Nov 24th, 2011 at 9:08am
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40 Rod Agree copper will wear steel question is how much and how fast. 

It's all guess work with old soft steel but in 30 cal  modern high power barrels used with hot loads and jacketed bullets 4000 rounds will see some opening up of groups.  I have heard Silhouette shooters say they don't use .243's because the barrels will go at 2000 rounds. 

I shot out a 30/06 barrel with about 7000 rounds. On the 500 meter Ram line it was a 8 inch 10 shot gun when the barrel was new. Opened up to 12 inches plus, not good enough to shoot matches with. Just re-barreled it and it's back to a 1 1/2 moa rifle.  It was worn at the leade from hot gas more than bullet friction. Hardly any rifling at all first few inches.

It's not real important though, like you say no good reason to use Gas Checks or high velocity in old Single Shots anyhow.

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Re: Gas check bullets in old 1890s soft steel barrel
Reply #5 - Nov 24th, 2011 at 2:50pm
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I do not believe that any two people (combined life spands) could wear a barrel out useing GC's. You have to keep in mine that the GC is NOT running on the barrel! It's running on the lubrication provided by the lubed grooves, just like a steel shaft runs in a copper or brass bushing. It's nothing like jacketed bullets running dry in a barrel. As boats stated, the throats can become erroded from high temp, high pressure loads. 

I know of no case where high pressure alone has rung a barrel. Barrels can burst at some pressure but, not ring. All ringing that I have ever heard of (including my own rung barrel) has been caused by a barrel obstruction, such as useing a wad in the case or something farther down the barrel, such as a bullet or GC that didn't clear the barrel or even something like snow getting in the muzzel. I used GC's shooting with the CBA for about 5 years and never lose one but, I would not use them in low pressure loads for fear of doing just that especially with the no crimp Lymans. Keep in mind they are not legal to shoot in ASSRA matches but you can use them in most CBA matches.

Frank
  

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Re: Gas check bullets in old 1890s soft steel barrel
Reply #6 - Nov 24th, 2011 at 3:19pm
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I quit using GC a long time ago. Saw no advantage at the velocities i was using. If i want more velocity I will use PP ore jacketed. I don't think a lubed GC will have any wear effect on the bore It will help prevent ledding. So will a lot of other things. Proper alloy,Lube and velocity.
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Re: Gas check bullets in old 1890s soft steel barrel
Reply #7 - Nov 25th, 2011 at 8:04am
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Frank
If you know of no case where pressure alone has ringed a barrel try reading Charlie Dell on chamber ringing. Or read Claude Rodrick's letter describing how using Ned Roberts loads of 4227 he ruined a Pope barrel. Or read Harvey Donaldson on chamber ringing. What do you think causes the ring?

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Re: Gas check bullets in old 1890s soft steel barrel
Reply #8 - Nov 25th, 2011 at 10:52am
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I don't believe gas checks will wear a old soft steel BP barrel out, but it will wear faster than cast lead bullets will.
  

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Re: Gas check bullets in old 1890s soft steel barrel
Reply #9 - Nov 25th, 2011 at 12:26pm
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I have a Marlin 1893 in 32/40. It's barrel has some pitting, so I occasionally use a gas checked bullet to keep some of the lead fouling down.  I can shoot more rounds and retain accuracy longer without cleaning.   
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Re: Gas check bullets in old 1890s soft steel barrel
Reply #10 - Nov 25th, 2011 at 12:57pm
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40_rod,
Please quote those passages for me as I don't have those books. I only know of the later scientific testing done and my own experience. 

At what chamber pressure do they ring a portion of the barrel on old barrel steel?

Frank
  

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