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Ideal mold #408403
Nov 3rd, 2011 at 4:16pm
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I am looking for info as to the stated weight for this bullet mold,#308403. A sticker on the box says that it is for a 32-40 Pope. The sticker was written by a past owner. The weight of the cast bullet that came with the mold is 174.2 gn. I do not know what the alloy mix was. any info on the mold would be appreciated.

Ron 
  
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frnkeore
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Re: Ideal mold #408403
Reply #1 - Nov 3rd, 2011 at 4:22pm
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Ideal says that it's 167 gr. There standard for weight is #2 alloy. It was design for practice loads in the '06 and would be way small for any 32/40.

Frank
  

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Re: Ideal mold #408403
Reply #2 - Nov 3rd, 2011 at 5:06pm
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Yes small it is, the base mikes .317 OD.

Ron
  
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peterson2520ss
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Re: Ideal mold #408403
Reply #3 - Nov 3rd, 2011 at 5:52pm
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That bullet was tapered both ways from the middle of the base band. the bands to the front tape to something like .303 and the back end of the base band should be .308 to fit into an 30/40 Krag or 30-06 case.

Det
  
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Re: Ideal mold #408403
Reply #4 - Nov 3rd, 2011 at 6:23pm
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The mold that I have is .303 at the front and just tapers in one direction.

Ron
  
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Re: Ideal mold #408403
Reply #5 - Nov 3rd, 2011 at 7:53pm
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If that is the case the bottom part of the base band has been cut over sized.  The bottom 1/2 of the base band was originally cut to fit into the neck of the service rifles leaving all lube groove out in the open.

Det
  
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Re: Ideal mold #408403
Reply #6 - Nov 4th, 2011 at 3:32am
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I have #311403 that I bought back in 1966.  It casts 172 grains with a 1:20 mix.  The bullet has a one way taper.  Base band is .314.  Front bands are close to .303.  The way I was told to seat the bullet was to use a case with the inside of the neck turned to accept the lower half of the base band.  The recommended load was about 11 grains of SR 4759.
  
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Re: Ideal mold #408403
Reply #7 - Nov 4th, 2011 at 5:18am
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This bullet was designed by H. M. Pope for target shooting to 200 yards with the Springfield 30/06 rifle. To load, deprime, prime, charge case with powder, puth the bullet in the case with the fingers until it is in about half way up the base band.
The base band is tapered like a boat tail so that the bullet "wedges" in the case mouth. 
I've shot this bullet for 30 years or more, and it has worked in any 30 caliber rifle I've owned. 30BR, 30-30, 308, 30/06 etc.
Here's more:

From the 1927 Ideal Hand Book:
“308403. Bullet designed by Mr. Harry Pope for extreme accuracy in competitive shooting in the .30 Springfield rifle. Should be used as cast and not resized. Diameter of first four bands from point .301”, fifth band .303, sixth band .305”, last band .315”. Bullet seated in case with fingers so mouth of case extends only half way up base band. Powder charge 12 to 15 grains Dupont No. 80 powder. This bullet gives better accuracy up to 200 yards than any combination we know of in the Springfield, but owing to the bullet being seated so lightly in the case, it is not suitable for handling except on the target range.”
More below.
  
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Re: Ideal mold #408403
Reply #8 - Nov 4th, 2011 at 5:22am
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We went to the range in Miami on Wednesday, October 5, 2011. 
     For various reasons, none interesting, I had not fired a gun in ten weeks, and had not fired the M10 Savage 308 Winchester since the previous February.
     Michael Barrett had written about his success with SR4756 and plain based bullets for some time, so I had bought a pound and decided on an arbitrary load of 8 grains with the 308403 bullet and Remington LP (2.5) primers in the Savage, using a Lyman 20X Super Targetspot scope.  All shooting was at 100 yards with one case loaded at the bench.
     I had never shot the 308403 in the Savage, discovered that the bullet would not go into the fired case far enough to hold securely, but found that a very light tap on the bullet nose with my yellow plastic mallet seated it in the case nicely.
     The wind was blowing hard enough to blow other targets off the frames; mine required lots of masking tape. 
     Fifty shots were fired, some to adjust the sights and others as fouling shots. Seven five shot groups were fired for record, the groups measuring (“): 1.575, 1.3, 2.0, 1.125, 1.075, 1.925, 1.125; for an average of 1.446”.
     For a comparison, I then fired five groups with 314299 and 15/A#9, a good but not the most accurate load. Groups measured (“): .975, 1.05, 1.475, 1.2, .85; for an average of 1.110”.
     All groups were measured to the nearest .025” using a plastic ruler.
     I have been a champion of Pope’s 308403 for 35 years or more, and have seen shooters size, bump, swage and mercilessly redesign this bullet; I blush to admit that I have done so myself.
     Harry explained that the bullet was designed for offhand shooting in the 1903 Springfield 30-06 rifle; that the benefits of using the bullet included excellent accuracy, light recoil, no gas checks, no bullet sizing, no case sizing, a small (inexpensive) powder charge and little wind drift because of low velocity.
     I know that there are other, more accurate cast bullets; yet H. M. designed a bullet for us that works perf
  
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Re: Ideal mold #408403
Reply #9 - Nov 4th, 2011 at 5:30am
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The above from the book, where there is more info and shooting examples and a drawing of the bullet. 
Any rifle that averages 1 1/2" at 100 yards and 3" at 200 yards is as accurate as 99 44/100 % of offhand shooters need a rifle to be. 
I have never understood why Lyman or ?? never made molds on the same principle for other calibers-for instance a 300 grain 45 caliber bullet could be shot with smokeless or BP with good results.
Perhaps it's just because people don't understand the bullet, and because some fiddle with it.
I'll be happy to buy yet another 308403 mold.
joe b.
  
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Re: Ideal mold #408403
Reply #10 - Nov 4th, 2011 at 7:09am
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Thank you very much for answering and giving insight on the history of the mold.

Ron
  
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Re: Ideal mold #408403
Reply #11 - Nov 4th, 2011 at 3:30pm
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If this were castboolets, someone would be organizing a group buy....
  

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Re: Ideal mold #408403
Reply #12 - Nov 7th, 2011 at 10:46am
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Good idea.
  
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Re: Ideal mold #408403
Reply #13 - Nov 8th, 2011 at 10:22am
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Cat
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Re: Ideal mold #408403
Reply #14 - Nov 8th, 2011 at 7:26pm
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Think I have one of these molds. It's a Belding and Mull.  Stamped 311168.

Looks zakly like a Pope bullet.  Maybe I try it in my Krag.

        Joe.  Smiley
  

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