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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Help - .32-40 Fixed Loads, Taper Crimp & OAL (Read 8118 times)
CajunRebel
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Help - .32-40 Fixed Loads, Taper Crimp & OAL
Jun 15th, 2011 at 7:58pm
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I have C.Sharps Arms reproduction Winchester Highwall in .32-40. I was contemplating buying a Lee Factory Crimp (LFC) to ensure consistent ignition for fixed loads.  Plus, bullets won’t be falling into the loaded case when handled since I’m not roll crimping, and cases may last a little longer.
 
.32-40 not being offered by Lee as standard, I have to submit a cartridge.  .32-40 max overall length is 2.55.  I took several bullets, sized .321 and dropped them into the chamber and, using a cleaning rod,  measured the difference between the bullet face and the breech block.  (Maybe later I’ll leave them unsized and just lube them.)
 
I bought a Hochs .322/200gr (~208gr) non-tapered mould.  It’s the match of the tapered one they sell for breech loaders.  Anyway, not one of the bullets were marred by the lands.  The length measured is 2.64.  Loading a bullet in an empty case, 2.64 OAL puts the bullet up to the back 1/5 of the first band (counting from the nose).
 
QUESTION #1: What do you think of using the Lee (LFC) for taper crimping?
QUESTION #2: If I purchase the LFC, for what length do I want it made, e.g., 2.55 (covers first band), 2.64 (just kissing the lands and covering the back 1/5 of the first band), or adding a little more length (.006???) to just “bite” the lands, (maybe 2.70 OAL).
« Last Edit: Jun 15th, 2011 at 9:16pm by CajunRebel »  
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boats
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Re: Help - .32-40 Fixed Loads, Taper Crimp & OAL
Reply #1 - Jun 16th, 2011 at 10:10pm
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Lot could be said but to keep it down to whats important. One shooters opinion only.

No real reason to crimp any single shot cartridge used on the target range.  I shoot a monthly match that requires fixed.  Most people that shoot winning scores just flare the case with a Lyman M die or it's equivalent and roll the slight flare out. Plenty of tension to hold the bullet in place without a crimp. Perhaps a long hunting trip with the cartridges in a belt crimp could be good.

Powder complete burn is a function of using the right powder. Guessing 80% of the 32/40's shot in competition use 4227 and it burns fine with little or no case neck pull.  Strong crimp is a good way to get the wrong powder to fully ignite. If not 4227 something that's close on a relative quickness chart ought to do fine.

Other thing is single shots no real reason to worry about O/A length either. Seat it out until it touches the lands  and shoot them all the same length. I don't even know how long my fixed 38/55 loads are. I just seat them until they touch.  Don't worry about were the bullet sits in the case. It's not important.

I use Lee dies for many cartridges. Pistols with cast bullets Lee exclusively. Lee  Factory crimp on all my lever action loads. 30/30 45/70 32/20 & 38/40. I don't take great pains with Lever loads, you need to crimp them and Lees factory crimp covers up for inconsistent case length.    My opinion is Lee is not the best choice for target loads in straight taper old cases though. 

My 32/40 & 38/55 dies are a mix of Lyman factory, M I polish down to the proper size mostly and C-H made to order.  It's just a different standard of precision required for a single shot target rifle and economy dies made for the mass market won't do for me.

What's important with fixed is getting the right  bullet up to the lands and launching with minimal disturbance.  That Hoch bullet is a good one give it the best chance by not disturbing it any more than you have too. 

Boat
  
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Chuckster
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Re: Help - .32-40 Fixed Loads, Taper Crimp & OAL
Reply #2 - Jun 16th, 2011 at 10:26pm
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Cajun,
This is one of those questions that is almost too big unless you have the exact parts in front of you. I am just starting on a 32-40 and smokeless and this is the way I am going FWIW.

Question #1: Would not use a factory crimp on lead bullets. Have heard some good words on the Lee Collet crimper, but no crimp is better.

Question #2": You have already done what I would do to determine OAL. Don't worry about what the book says, use whatever works for your rifle and chamber, but I want the bullet pushing against the rifling.

Best of luck developing a load.
Chuck
  
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CajunRebel
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Re: Help - .32-40 Fixed Loads, Taper Crimp & OAL
Reply #3 - Jun 17th, 2011 at 9:27am
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Thanks for the input.  Last night I decided to dump my mix of reloads and start from scratch, i.e., re-necksize, load 14gr IMR4227, OAL 2.70, then check looseness of bullet.  After this batch of resized bullets, I'll not resize, just lube, and see what that gives.  I have a Lyman .323 sizing die, hope its not too messy.  Otherwise, I'll have to go to pan lubing.  After that I'll drop back a few grs and see what each will do to group size. Smiley
  
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Re: Help - .32-40 Fixed Loads, Taper Crimp & OAL
Reply #4 - Jun 17th, 2011 at 12:15pm
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I use a Lyman lube sizer for some bullets, 45/70 for lever actions mostly. But pan lubing is fast and efficient for 32/40. or 38/55. Tapered bullet you pretty much have to pan lube or hand lube with a Pope style lube pump, Can get 50 to a aluminum cake pan. Time consuming is waiting for it to cool so lube up a bunch over a few days 

To be clear however my 38/55 for fixed with 4227 I do F/L size the cases.  When I load it with black powder filled up to the bullets base I don't F.L size.  Only 32/40 I load fixed is gallery squibs but use the same method. You have to sqeeze the case some to hold the bullet in place.

De-cap with a RCBS universal de-capper or a Pope style nutcracker then clean the case in a vibirator

Lube and F/L size with a C-H sizer die 

Open up the neck and flare with a Lyman M die. I polished out the expander to be the exact minimum expansion my bullet needs for a firm but not tight seat.  Clean the cases again with a quick run through the vibrator.

Seat the bullet with a Lyman seater die. Bullet seater plug has been altered to fit the bullets nose. Bullet is out of the case about 1/2 a grease grove and comes in contact with the lands lightly when the breech block is closed.  I can remove unfired cartridges without the bullet sticking in the lands. This step irons out the flare, test is to run my thumb over the neck and see if it is smooth no drag from the flare.  The die is set just to put the bullet in place but not squeeze down any more than required to iron out the flare.

These loads are for fixed ammo offhand matches, I can't tell you they will win bench rest matches. But watch a whole lot of them go down range and never any flyer's or unexplained shots.  My guess is it's 2 moa ammunition. 2 moa the first shot and 2 moa 60 shots later end of the match.  I can breech seat the same rifle with a different bullet and get 1 1/2 Moa out of it bench rest.  

Levers same method but add the Factory Crimp as a 5th step.

Boats
  
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Re: Help - .32-40 Fixed Loads, Taper Crimp & OAL
Reply #5 - Jul 25th, 2018 at 3:10am
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That was just the thread I have been looking for . Thanks Guys for answering some of the questions I have been thinking about. But didn't know how to ask . I have Two 32-40's one I will be Breech seating and the other I'd like to use fixes loads. Thanks again , Bruce
  

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Re: Help - .32-40 Fixed Loads, Taper Crimp & OAL
Reply #6 - Jul 25th, 2018 at 4:19pm
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I've piddled with fixed loads in .32-40 quite a bit. Some are almost as good as my breech seated fodder- not many, but a few. 
Some observations:
Crimp always mutilates a bullet. In a lever gun it needs to be done, but not a single, where you can deliver the bullet in better shape without the crimp.
Some bullets worked a tiny bit better just ever-so-shy of the rifling- worth a try with each slug you test.
I lugged some around on rough roads two or three trips to the range before shooting 'em up. If they were fairly snug in the cases (good bullet fit to barrel, brass just able to chamber) no movement was seen. Lube exposed worried me more. But, I wouldn't hesitate to take those hunting if I did so with that gun.
Sorry I'm late to this party, but that's my contribution. Boats is pretty spot on here. As he usually is Wink
  
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Re: Help - .32-40 Fixed Loads, Taper Crimp & OAL
Reply #7 - Jul 25th, 2018 at 6:01pm
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Single shot hunting is limited to prairie dogs unless it's a .32-20, which is for bear. Smiley
I never shot any black powder in any load I've made up for that rifle, fixed or breech seated. In it's youth, it must have been tormented that way (smokeless not being invented yet), but since WW2, from whence I know its history, only the good stuff goes through its barrel. No separated cases.
  
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Re: Help - .32-40 Fixed Loads, Taper Crimp & OAL
Reply #8 - Jul 25th, 2018 at 7:11pm
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Quote:
QUESTION #1: What do you think of using the Lee (LFC) for taper crimping?

Lee does make a FC Die for the 32-40 nor do they make a Collet Die for the 32-40.
If the ID of your case is is larger that 0.001 to 0.002 - take the decapper pin out of the FL sizing die and just tap the case mouth
  
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Re: Help - .32-40 Fixed Loads, Taper Crimp & OAL
Reply #9 - Jul 26th, 2018 at 2:48pm
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Most the time my fixed loads work best if touching the rifling. But I can't say that's 100% of the time, as occasionally I get better accuracy with a little space away from touching the rifling. So it's tough to say it's always going to be best to touch the rifling in every situation.
I don't crimp the necks on my single shot loads. Just enough tension to ensure the bullet doesn't move in the case neck.
  

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Re: Help - .32-40 Fixed Loads, Taper Crimp & OAL
Reply #10 - Jul 26th, 2018 at 11:57pm
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   That’s more great information Guys , I was just going by the Reloading Data specs.in The Books and internet. 
   Also shooting turn of the Century SS Rifles I stuck with good old B.P.  as I usually do with my other Old Rifles. So I just gained allot of knowledge on Smokeless Powder loads for the 32-40 .
I don’t reload this time of year as much as the rest of the year but I think I have to try some of my new found knowledge.
Thanks again all ,Bruce
  

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Re: Help - .32-40 Fixed Loads, Taper Crimp & OAL
Reply #11 - Jul 27th, 2018 at 5:41pm
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When I was shooting my 1885 High Wall (original not a repro) for Cowboy Action Shooting side rifle matches I used a Rapine 165 plain base boolit in slightly short re-formed .30-30 cases.  I used an RCBS neck expander die with a .321" plug and flared the cases just enough to seat the boolits.  I seated them so they were just "kissing" the rifling and adjusted the seater die to remove the flare, but didn't use a crimp.  With 12.0 to 12.5 grains of 2400 that old High Wall still shoots WAY better than I can hold it ...
  

I may have passed my "Best Before" date, but I haven't quite reached my "Expiry" date yet ...
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Re: Help - .32-40 Fixed Loads, Taper Crimp & OAL
Reply #12 - Jul 27th, 2018 at 7:42pm
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My methods are nearly the same as Rev Al tells of. My rifle likes a little larger expander- .323, but that's probably just the gun's preference, and I had one of each size to try.   
My rifle is an original as well. Guess that the Winchester barrels didn't get the message that fixed was inferior.
  
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Re: Help - .32-40 Fixed Loads, Taper Crimp & OAL
Reply #13 - Jul 27th, 2018 at 10:41pm
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I'll give that one a try for sure  , I just found a whole bag of Cleaned once fired 30/30 Brass . I just wish I didn't have so many other Summer Projects going on at the same time. The Rifles I'm Shooting are originals also ,but one is an Original Hopkins & Allen and the other is a freshly Relined Remington Hepburn done by a forum member . So I have two different size Barrels .I'll probably end up using the Rem. Hep. more once I get started again. Of course its the Ugly one and the H&A I got off Gun Broker and its Nice.
I'm going to have to make some time to Load & Shoot with all of this new found knowledge from this thread. I'm looking foward to seeing the results . Thanks Again ,Bruce
« Last Edit: Jul 28th, 2018 at 12:53am by OldRvr »  

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