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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Atmospheric Conditions? (Read 10167 times)
Schuetzendave
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Re: Atmospheric Conditions?
Reply #15 - Mar 25th, 2011 at 4:39pm
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For colder winter/fall increase powder load by 0.1 grain.
For hot summer days at Raton, NM reduce powder load by 0.1 grain.

To adjust your seater just prior to the competition:

Colder low pressure systems: turn in Weber breech seater rod (to shorten length) by 1/4 turn to see if it tightens. Do again to see if group gets tighter.

Hotter high pressure systems: turn out the Weber breech seater rod (to increase length) by 1/4 turn to see if group gets tighter. Do again to see if group gets tighter.

Each rifle needs to be assessed by testing to determine the correct adjustments needed to fine tune. And of course you need to figure out the correct powder load and specific breech depth to determine if you are close to the sweet spot before you can fine tune. You can use your adjustable seater to fine tune back to that sweet spot as temperature, relative humidity, and elevation change.
  
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Schuetzendave
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Re: Atmospheric Conditions?
Reply #16 - Mar 25th, 2011 at 5:00pm
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I have long believed that changes of .1 grain of powder do not change accuracy.


I have custom loaded many cartridges and have tested smokeless and black powder as well as plain based cast bullets and jacketed bullets as well. I have found there are better groups within .3 grains of a powder load that provides the best vibration in the barrel. 

Pick a windy day and shoot a group of 35 shots for each of three powder loads .1 grains apart while ignoring the wind. Look at the group size afterwards. Always a very clear tighter group for the one that is the sweet spot. A group has to have at least 35 shots in the group to statistically demonstrate the wind variation impacts. However when you find the the sweet spot you will have less impact from the wind.

Shoot only one round from each powder load at a time to ensure you have similar wind impacts in the end after you shoot the groups of 35. Data for my rifles may be meaningless to most; so I say go try this procedure and see how you can identify your own sweet spot.

But then after this test; you have to go up and down by .3 grains to find the best sweet spot.

I would tell you how accurately my benchrest scores have gotten but Westerner is tired of me bragging.
« Last Edit: Mar 25th, 2011 at 5:06pm by Schuetzendave »  
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JLouis
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Re: Atmospheric Conditions?
Reply #17 - Mar 25th, 2011 at 5:07pm
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Great points Boats I also get on the Internet and look at the detailed weather predictions the night prior to and the morning of the match. 

In the Military Sniper Training handbook in regards to Humidity it is stated when the humidity goes up the impact goes down; when the humidity goes down the impact goes up. Since impact is affected by humidity, a 20 percent change in humidity equals about one minute as a rule of thumb.

I would assume if one has the ability to convert this information into velocity loss and velocity gain it could be helpful in regards to what direction the powder charge would need to be adjusted to help one stay in tune?

I might as well throw this into the pot while I am at it. One of the top bench rest shooters in this game told me that once you have your rifle sighted in for a no wind condition and assuming you have a scope that will not change its point of impact in transit or other wise it is simple matter of adjusting your powder charge the morning of a match until it impacts back into the previous setting which should have been the center of the 25 ring to be in the right tune.

After reading my own posting on the increase and decrease of the impact point with a change in humidity his method truly does makes since. Due to my never ending load development and the daily changes associated with it I have not been in a position to try his method. 

J.Louis
« Last Edit: Mar 25th, 2011 at 6:03pm by JLouis »  

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JackHughs
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Re: Atmospheric Conditions?
Reply #18 - Mar 25th, 2011 at 7:45pm
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This works for me; for benchrest scope shooting - ASSRA, ISSA, and CBA.

Find a load (bullet, lube, powder, seating depth) that works.  Don't change it.

Find a calm-day windage zero. Don't change it.

Show up at a practice session or match.  Shoot sighters to determine if the weather conditions require a few elevation clicks up or down.

As the day goes on, see if shots are trending up or down.  Adjust elevation as necessary.

Address the remaining 99% of mental effort to bench technique and the wind.

Hope for good luck.

JackHughs
 
  

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frnkeore
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Re: Atmospheric Conditions?
Reply #19 - Mar 25th, 2011 at 8:10pm
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Jack,
I don't disagree with thoughs basics but, there will be times when the gun stops grouping well. Then you do have to at least try adjusting your powder charge to bring it back in and it's the easiest variable to deal with, too. Primers come next. 

I use fixed length BSer's so, I never have to worry about it getting out of adjustment. I've had that happen when I first started this game and it almost drove me crazy. I would mess with the breech seating last (assuming it shot well before) as a way to get a gun to come back in.

There are so many variables in the load and rifle that, the more you shoot, the more you learn about the basics and your rifle in particular.

Frank
  

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JLouis
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Re: Atmospheric Conditions?
Reply #20 - Mar 25th, 2011 at 9:02pm
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frnkeore you have a very valid point but I would have to agree with Ole Jack Hughes statement Hope For Good Luck.

In all honesty I have found the more I think I know the more I am handicapped as the Ole Timers have already spent the time and energy it took to figure most of it out way before I started this game.

I truly like to fool around trying to improve on their accomplishments and I am finding out that one should not try to re-event the wheel but would be better served to try and continue where they left off.

J.Louis

  

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John Boy
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Re: Atmospheric Conditions?
Reply #21 - Mar 25th, 2011 at 9:37pm
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I truly like to fool around trying to improve on their accomplishments and I am finding out that one should not try to re-event the wheel but would be better served to try and continue where they left off.

John, such a true statement!  Unfortunately, the majority of Schuetzen and BPCR shooters haven't read the books detailing the time and results that they wrote in the 1800's and early 1900's! Sad
For instance, how familiar are folks with the works of Metford - Mann - Noble - Hudson and even Harry Pope to name a few?
  
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westerner
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Re: Atmospheric Conditions?
Reply #22 - Mar 25th, 2011 at 9:46pm
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JackHughs wrote on Mar 25th, 2011 at 7:45pm:
This works for me; for benchrest scope shooting - ASSRA, ISSA, and CBA.

Find a load (bullet, lube, powder, seating depth) that works.  Don't change it.

Find a calm-day windage zero. Don't change it.

Show up at a practice session or match.  Shoot sighters to determine if the weather conditions require a few elevation clicks up or down.

As the day goes on, see if shots are trending up or down.  Adjust elevation as necessary.

Address the remaining 99% of mental effort to bench technique and the wind.

Hope for good luck.

JackHughs
 


I do it just like Jack does it.   I do take extra clothes in case it gets cold.   

Speaking of clothes, I wonder what I did with those rubber boots?   I got my pantlegs rolled up now while reading some of these posts.  Roll Eyes

The only load changing I can remember doing for atmospherical conditions was when going from the Puget Sound to Golden for the Coors matches. We used to drop our powder charge from 14 to about 12.5 to combat the dry air heat and leading in Golden. 


                          Joe.  Smiley
  

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Jeff_Schultz
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Re: Atmospheric Conditions?
Reply #23 - Mar 25th, 2011 at 10:01pm
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I have followed this thread with great interest and was starting to feel like an egg. Then JackHughs comes along and hits the nail on the head. 
I feel like he does; I hardly ever change my powder charge, never my seating depth. If your gun shoots good and your group opens up it's because of the condition that you can't see. While you're pissin' around "tuning" your load the condition has come back to "normal" and you think you've done something. When my gun starts shooting badly I go have a sandwich.
  

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boats
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Re: Atmospheric Conditions?
Reply #24 - Mar 26th, 2011 at 5:02am
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We are taking about a small part of the total picture. Was I look at it competition is like a pie.  One slice is Equipment one Bullet and load, another Conditions, then there is Match strategy, and the biggest slice of the pie by far is human performance.

If the weather is consistent rifle and load are up to standard it's all up to the shooter.  Anybody than can get off 100 shots without making mistakes is going to have a very good score.  I never shot 100 without making judgement errors  of some sort. In fact that's what I keep track of how many screw up's each match. Bench rest I know little about but watching seems to me it's even more important not to blow any shots.   

What you read about on the internet is what barrel, powder, load, merits of one action vs another. Truth of the matter is all you have to do is hold the gun the same way every time & pull the trigger when the sights are aligned, in the same condition every shot.  Harry Pope said "it's the absence of bad ones "

Boats
  
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Re: Atmospheric Conditions?
Reply #25 - Mar 26th, 2011 at 6:06am
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When using my Hoch .32 Miller short, the cases are all preloaded with a wad on the powder.  Perty tough to change the powder charge. 

When reloading a single case I would change the powder charge if it got very hot out.  Doubt I would have time to do any fine tuning on a sighter target during a match.  From a clean barrel theres usually three to five shots on my sighter target. Then I go to record.  

                          Joe.
  

A blind squirrel runs into a tree every once in a while.
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