ASSRA Forum - Stepping back in time - UMC .22 L.R. blackpowder

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Stepping back in time - UMC .22 L.R. blackpowder (Read 37936 times)

w44wcf Participating Member Offline Posts: 43 Location: Erie, PA Joined: Apr 24^th, 2008	Re: Stepping back in time - UMC .22 L.R. blackpowder Reply #30 - Apr 7^th, 2011 at 1:07pm	Print Post
	Guys, THank you for the box pics. Here is a pic of some early 22 b.p. boxes I was able to put together from the internet. Top left - UMC - 1888- 1911 (?) This is likely what the box looked like. Top Right - WRA CO box dated Nov. 1906 Bottom left - WRA CO Short Stetson Patent dated Oct 31, 1871 Bottom right - WRA CO Long - same (1871-1900?) I have never seen a LR box in that type of label but they probably exsist. (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) w44wcf
	« Last Edit: Apr 7^th, 2011 at 1:16pm by w44wcf »
	aka Jack Christian "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." Philippians 4:13&&aka w30wcf&&aka John Kort&&NRA Life Member&&.22 W.C.F. , .30 W.C.F., .44 W.C.F. cartridge historian
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.22-5-40 Oldtimer Offline Posts: 828 Joined: Feb 13^th, 2010	Re: Stepping back in time - UMC .22 L.R. blackpowder Reply #31 - Apr 7^th, 2011 at 1:44pm	Print Post
	Very interesting stuff guys! The only .22 rimfire reloading I ever did was re-prime cases with strike anywhere match heads..just to see how Native Americans were forced to reload their .44 Henry or .56-? Spencer, when the U.S. Army forbade the selling of ammunition to them. Good stuff. Now then..If your going to go thru all this trouble...Why not do it right..& use an INSIDE lubricated bullet like S&W probably should have done in first place..Of course you'll need a custom bore sized barrel..It would be interesting to see how it would shoot. Best of luck!


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BP Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 8039 Location: Westside Joined: Aug 27^th, 2006	Re: Stepping back in time - UMC .22 L.R. blackpowder Reply #32 - Apr 23^rd, 2011 at 2:48pm	Print Post
	Anyone thought about seeing if David Mos would cut a 22RF mould that would duplicate the Eley Tenex bullet?

	There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading, the few who learn by observation, and the rest who have to pee on the electric fence and find out for themselves. Proud Noodlehead
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nobearsyet Ex Member	Re: Stepping back in time - UMC .22 L.R. blackpowder Reply #33 - Jun 12^th, 2011 at 1:59pm	Print Post
	He probably would for the right price.


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John Boy Ex Member	Re: Stepping back in time - UMC .22 L.R. blackpowder Reply #34 - Jun 12^th, 2011 at 7:55pm	Print Post
	Quote: Anyone thought about seeing if David Mos would cut a 22RF mould that would duplicate the Eley Tenex bullet? I presume he would if all of us who have molds on order could contact him. Since February, have single & 2 cavity molds, promised in 4 - 6 weeks, cut in the dimensions of the original UMC 40gr bullet on order. I paid for 2 in full If anyone knows where David is and what he's doing instead of making molds _____ Let Me Know!


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w44wcf Participating Member Offline Posts: 43 Location: Erie, PA Joined: Apr 24^th, 2008	Re: Stepping back in time - UMC .22 L.R. blackpowder Reply #35 - Nov 2^nd, 2011 at 9:28am	Print Post
	The KT22LR molds from David Mos have arrived! Baja_Traveler was the first one to make bullets and give them a try. (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) Within the past week or two I made some with 11 bhn alloy and lubed them with SPG. For starters, 4.2 grs of Swiss Null B produced a 9 shot group of 1.25" @ 50 yards after firing 1 fouling shot. That was from my 39A Marlin. More testing to be done in the next few weeks....... w44wcf

	aka Jack Christian "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." Philippians 4:13&&aka w30wcf&&aka John Kort&&NRA Life Member&&.22 W.C.F. , .30 W.C.F., .44 W.C.F. cartridge historian
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UtahDave Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 396 Location: Heber City, Utah Joined: Aug 14^th, 2010	Re: Stepping back in time - UMC .22 L.R. blackpowder Reply #36 - Nov 2^nd, 2011 at 9:58am	Print Post
	Can you provide the exact dimensions of the bullets? I know some of you guys bought a huge lot of primed 22 LR brass. Do you know where there might be some more available? This looks like a good winter project but shooting indoors may be a problem! Dave


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waterman Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 3003 Location: Behind the Redwood Curtain Joined: Jun 9^th, 2004	Re: Stepping back in time - UMC .22 L.R. blackpowder Reply #37 - Nov 2^nd, 2011 at 12:33pm	Print Post
	44, Are you crimping the bullets? Have you run them through the magazine of the 39A? And does the 39A have a micro-groove barrel?


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Baja_Traveler Participating Member Offline Posts: 33 Location: San Diego Joined: Feb 11^th, 2011	Re: Stepping back in time - UMC .22 L.R. blackpowder Reply #38 - Nov 4^th, 2011 at 9:46pm	Print Post
	Waterman, I'm running my rounds through a Paco Accurizr for assembly, and I'm only using neck tension to hold everything together. The bullet seats pretty tight, so I see no need to crimp. I'm running them all through my micro grooved 39a magazine fed, and they cycle perfectly. Put 120 rounds through the rifle last weekend - no cleaning or blow tubing what so ever, and accuracy never fell off. Below is my first test target shooting black. 10 fouling shots in the lower right, then 10 for score in the lower left, then the remaining 30 back on the right. (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links)


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QuestionableMaynard8130 Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 4144 Location: Benton Harbor MI Joined: Apr 17^th, 2004	Re: Stepping back in time - UMC .22 L.R. blackpowder Reply #39 - Nov 6^th, 2011 at 12:39pm	Print Post
	just out of curiosity, (at least for me since ASSRA rules mandate unaltered factory ammo for 22rf competition) has anyone though of trying the Swiss NullB flintlock priming powder rather than sifting and sorting 4F? I was given a small amount to use in my flintlock. I find the idea of recreating the early 22rf ammo to be fascinating and one of the more exotic example of singles-shot gun tinkering. It is interesting the the 22rf seems not to have made the competition stage until the very early years of the 1900's and that high grade match quality ammo add not come along for another 10 or 20 years.

	sacred cows make the best burger
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frnkeore Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7664 Location: Central Point, OR 97502 Joined: Jun 16^th, 2010	Re: Stepping back in time - UMC .22 L.R. blackpowder Reply #40 - Nov 6^th, 2011 at 4:46pm	Print Post
	DWS, This is all that I could find regarding RF ammo rules. "Section 1.13: .22 Rimfire Rifles .22 caliber rimfire rifles are classified separately and do not compete with the centerfire rifles. Only .22 Short, Long or Long rifle cartridges shall be in this category." It says nothing about fixed ammo. I've shot BSed 22rf in ASSRA matches since the late 80's and have won ASSRA RF matches with that combo. I still shoot BSed 22rf in matches since I started shooting again. If I'm wrong please show me the rule that prohibits it as I don't want to be disquaified in future matches. Frank

	ASSRA Member #696, ISSA Member #339
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QuestionableMaynard8130 Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 4144 Location: Benton Harbor MI Joined: Apr 17^th, 2004	Re: Stepping back in time - UMC .22 L.R. blackpowder Reply #41 - Nov 7^th, 2011 at 10:07pm	Print Post
	Frank, not sure about that its a gray area and I'm recalling some discussion back when the rules were revised about factory ammo. I think they were more concerned about 22 rf magnums and the 17 rfs at the time. but I'm not real positive about it. Seems like there is wiggle room in it. I don't think the use of reloaded, or pulled apart/reloaded or BS'd 22rf has really come up in our 22rf matches at EG since we started them; so no local ruling/interpretation has been required yet to deal with it.

	sacred cows make the best burger
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Baja_Traveler Participating Member Offline Posts: 33 Location: San Diego Joined: Feb 11^th, 2011	Re: Stepping back in time - UMC .22 L.R. blackpowder Reply #42 - Nov 7^th, 2011 at 11:24pm	Print Post
	DWS - W44WCF has used Swiss Null B in his loads using the Lyman bullet. I don't sift or sort my Swiss 4f - all my rounds are loaded straight from the can as supplied.


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w44wcf Participating Member Offline Posts: 43 Location: Erie, PA Joined: Apr 24^th, 2008	Re: Stepping back in time - UMC .22 L.R. blackpowder Reply #43 - Nov 17^th, 2011 at 10:13am	Print Post
	DWS, I have used Swiss Null B and Swiss 4F and at this point they seem to shoot groups about the same with the velocity on the Null B being about 70 f.p.s. faster (1070 vs 1130). I did get a chance to try the Mos KT22LR bullets at 100 yards from my 39A Marlin and was pretty pleased with the results. Good target ammo doesn't group quite as good from that rifle ..... (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) I can't wait for the 2012 season of NRA Cowboy Silhouette to start.... (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) w22wcf
	« Last Edit: Sep 3^rd, 2016 at 8:37pm by w44wcf »
	aka Jack Christian "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." Philippians 4:13&&aka w30wcf&&aka John Kort&&NRA Life Member&&.22 W.C.F. , .30 W.C.F., .44 W.C.F. cartridge historian
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Baja_Traveler Participating Member Offline Posts: 33 Location: San Diego Joined: Feb 11^th, 2011	Re: Stepping back in time - UMC .22 L.R. blackpowder Reply #44 - Nov 24^th, 2011 at 12:55am	Print Post
	John, I pilfered and cropped your box picture in the post above for some custom labels for my own BP .22 boxes (recycled CCI minimag containers)... (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links)


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