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jonskorepa
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hot plate vibrator
Feb 2nd, 2011 at 3:07pm
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i use an electric hot plate and modified ci skillet to heat my moulds have had some problems w/ weight fillout. thought about making an unbalanced motor to attach to the skillet to vibrate both skillet and mould while pouring to slow solidification and hopefully reduce voids allow dross to float out assist fillout and assist entrapped air to escape.jat.   hope ive made myself clear. any thoughts comments.tks   jon
  
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RSW
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Re: hot plate vibrator
Reply #1 - Feb 2nd, 2011 at 5:56pm
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jonskorepa
Not knowing anything about your casting technique but going with your statement that your bullets are not filling out, my first thought is the heat of your alloy and/or mould is not hot enough. I normally cast 1:20 alloy about 800 degrees and cast 10 throwaway bullets to get the mould up to temperature before starting a run of bullets. I get .1 grain variation casting 210 grain 32-40 bullets so I know I’m doing something right.
  

Randy W
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There are indeed two Americas. Simply put, it is not the haves and have nots. The two Americans are in reality divided into those who do and those who don't.
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nobearsyet
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Re: hot plate vibrator
Reply #2 - Feb 2nd, 2011 at 8:02pm
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I agree with crash, sounds you need to heat your lead up more, care to explain a bit about your casting technique from setup to dropping a bullet?
  
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jonskorepa
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Re: hot plate vibrator
Reply #3 - Feb 2nd, 2011 at 10:36pm
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gentle men thank you for the advice and comments ill try warming things up a bit and see what happens need to cast next week with luck and creeks dont rise im in restaurent biz so one never knows. tks  jon
  
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John Boy
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Re: hot plate vibrator
Reply #4 - Feb 2nd, 2011 at 11:13pm
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jon, put a thermometer in the melt and run the temperature up to 690 - 720F.  Warm your mold up on the hot plate that you use.  Fill your ladle.  Turn the mold horizontally.  Put the ladle spout tightly into the sprue hole and turn the mold vertical.  Count to 5 - create a sprue puddle.  Cut the sprue when the puddle is at ~ 5 seconds.  If they don't frost then, your mold is not hot enough.Your bullets will be filled out.  
Couple of other suggestions:
* Chuck the idea about using that vibrator.  As I told you on TOR ... is not a safe casting concept and you are looking for trouble
* Buy a  copy of the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, 4th Edition.  Read Mike Venterino's write up in it a couple of time and follow his process
Good Luck with Your Cast Experiences!
  
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boats
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Re: hot plate vibrator
Reply #5 - Feb 3rd, 2011 at 5:49am
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I cast up a lot few weeks ago outdoors with just below freezing ambient temp with a strong gusty wind blowing. Last time I cast it was 95 degrees.   That's 70 degrees colder outside were the mold was working. Had trouble at first with fill out under the sprue plate.

Had to slow my pace and leave the dipper on the sprue plate longer making sure the heat transferred well to the top of the mold.  Lot of different temp's working. Pot and lead was hot read off a thermometer. Mold was hot too but the sprue plate is thinner and spends part of it's time open not part of the same heat "sink" as the rest of the mold. It was just not staying hot enough to make sure the base of the bullet filled out well. Slowing down and holding the dipper longer made it turn out very good bullets with a low rejection rate when inspected after.

Lot of ways for the bullet to go wrong, alloy and cleanliness of the lead probably first but temperature is the next for sure. And a whole lot of variables working on actual temperature.

Boats
  
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Cat_Whisperer
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Re: hot plate vibrator
Reply #6 - Feb 5th, 2011 at 7:55am
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Alloy temp.
Mould temp.
Distance from pot/ladle to mould
Diameter of flow from pot or ladle.
Velocity of alloy flowing into mould.
Pouring technique.
How tight the mould is held closed.
How long until the sprue is cut and then how long till the mould is opened.
Ambiant temperature.

It's an art.

Observing what comes out of the mould gives you a clue as to what to adjust.
Fill, frosting, flash, condition of sprue (torn or smeared)
...
...
  

Cat Whisperer (trk)
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38_Cal
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Re: hot plate vibrator
Reply #7 - Feb 5th, 2011 at 6:40pm
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Cat, you forgot the most important factor...remembering which pair of teeth to hold your tongue between while casting!   Grin  All excellent points you brought up, and for those who cast only infrequently, it can be hard to remember which methods work for a particular mould and alloy!

David
  

David Kaiser
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dave_j
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Re: hot plate vibrator
Reply #8 - Feb 5th, 2011 at 7:24pm
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not that i know anything but when i was learning to cast my mentor showed me his set up. he has thermostats attached to his mold and ladel and can see the degree difference. i was amazed at the difference. 
the most important part of casting is to develop a routine that allows you to cast a given amount of bullets in a set time period. variation in that routine will result in different bullets
i can cast 200 bullets and then quit. these will usually vary about .5 grain from #1 to #200   some can do better but that satisfies me and my gun
good luck Smiley Smiley Smiley
e
  

ah heck  AA#9,4227,300MP, as long as it goes bang
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LynnF
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Re: hot plate vibrator
Reply #9 - Feb 5th, 2011 at 8:06pm
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I've been casting round balls for close to 50 yrs, started with a Dixie mold, made of curling irons I think, and never had much problem. When I first tried casting 410 g bullets for a 40/65 I found I had a lot to learn. Proper alloy temp, mold temp, flux, and timing. Also learned to use a Paul Matthews swirl and to give the bullet time to freeze before dropping it. I've heard and read varying opinions about how much to flux. Some people say flux only once at the beginning. I probably do it too often. I've had good results with a nose-pour mold, although I have a new base-pour spitzer mold that I haven't had a chance to use.
Lynn
  
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Re: hot plate vibrator
Reply #10 - Feb 5th, 2011 at 9:43pm
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And what you do right may be wrong on another day.  I wonder if those  inexpensive laser thermometers from Harbor Freight and others would be useful. You zap a spot and it tells you the temperature.  They were real expensive now the importers sell Chinese made ones for 25 bucks.

If it would read mold temp, sprue plate temp, etc it would be real informative

Boats
  
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uscra112
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Re: hot plate vibrator
Reply #11 - Feb 6th, 2011 at 12:52am
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Those standoff thermometers are highly questionable, IMHO.  I studied them at length when trying to find a quick way to determine the temperature of engine blocks we were gaging in the auto plants.  They have to be calibrated for the "emissivity", (real word), of the material you're looking at, to be anything like accurate. Just as some surfaces absorb radiation better than others, so some materials emit radiation (i.e. infrared) more efficiently.  So you would almost certainly get different readings off your mold, your metal, and your pot, even if they were actually at the same temperature, because each object has a different emissivity.  BTW, on the ones we looked at, the laser is just a targeting device. It has no role in the actual measurement.  

  

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boats
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Re: hot plate vibrator
Reply #12 - Feb 6th, 2011 at 6:51am
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Thanks I figured it was too good to be true.  Anyway educated eye will sort out whats happening to the bullet anyway.  I do find keeping watch on the thermometer gives me a frame of reference on how hot or consistent my lead melt is. However it's the way the mold fills and bullet looks that counts

Boats
  
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digitall423
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Re: hot plate vibrator
Reply #13 - Feb 6th, 2011 at 7:02am
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uscra112 is right about the laser thermometers. I have one and have checked it against a very accurate lab thermometer on several different types of surfaces. The difference varies, but not enough to matter when it comes to molten lead. However, they are extremely inaccurate when testing a shiny surface like the shimmering lead in your pot.
The best way to maintain a constant temperature in your lead pot is with a PID controller. It is a small digital computer that you enter the temperature you want and it maintains that setpoint.
  
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uscra112
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Re: hot plate vibrator
Reply #14 - Feb 6th, 2011 at 8:49am
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Now you're talking.  A company named Watlow makes compact systems that sell for just a few hundred $$. They're used for controlling process heat in everything from papermaking to food processing to pharmaceuticals.  Again going to my work experience, we used them to modulate the heating elements in a precision air conditioning system for our gages.  (When you can measure millionths, nothing can be overlooked!) We could easily hold 1/10 degree in the air we circulated through our enclosures with that system.
« Last Edit: Feb 6th, 2011 at 8:56am by uscra112 »  

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