The post on 38/55's got me thinking about the 8.15x46 chamber. Does anyone have access to chamber drawings for that one.

I know the groove sizes very from about .313 - .321 or so but, do the chamber necks very with groove size? Also, i found with my gun that the chamber is 1.938 long. When I first got my gun, I made a case for it 1.811 long but, I found that after running a 30/30 through a 32/40 die that the case would go most of the way in the chamber so, I shortened it until it would fit all the way in and that was 1.938 lg. At that length the ID of the case is .317 and the OD is .337 (my groove is .315) At 1.811 it's .343 dia, At 1.711 it's .346 dia. at 1.611 it's .348 dia. The neck seems to start at 39mm (1.535) from the base at a diameter of .348. These are case measurements so, the actual chamber ID's would be .001-.002 larger than my case.

The chamber area of my rifle from 1,811 to 1.938 would be where the stop ring fits. So, a question would be, what are the most common stop ring diameters with the 8.15x46 bullets. For my gun, it would seem like it would be .338 or about 8.6mm dia. and the stop ring band would be at lest 3mm long.

For those that shoot there 8.15x46 guns BSed, it might be wise to make longer cases to protect the forward part of the chamber by about 3mm (.118) or 1.929 lg. But, check your chamber.

Do we have anyone out there that knows these chambers and stop ring sizes? I would really like a chamber drawing for this cartridge.


Frank

The groove diameter in my Stahl manufactured in 1891 is .316. My latest Aydt 8.15X46R proofed in 1927 is .321.  Stahl is four groove, Aydt is six groove. The chambers are similar. The Stahl will not shoot a RWS .316 srb accurately. It also leads terribly.  I'll be comparing these two rifles in the future Frank. I'll post my findings in your thread. Biggi and I will be shooting the QB postal match this coming week. While doing so we'll be giving the Aydt a try. Using a Frank Zika .321 stop ring bullet. 
The Aydt came with RWS ammo. Some of the loaded rounds had what appears to be a 321 - 232 and 11.9 gr 4759. The others were Hudson 319 - 272? And 11.9 gr 4759.  The Hudson two diameter 183 grain bullet. Some had lube on the forward lube rings and some did not. The ammo tells me the former owner was still trying for best accuracy. 
When I get a chance I'll post images and numbers of chamber casts of each chamber. 
In the old days I believe they loaded stop ring bullets and bullets without the stop ring. Now days in Germany and Austria they load fixed ammunition with modern reloading dies the same as we do. They are not allowed to have open gun powder containers on the firing line. Biggi also says to add that there is no time to load individual shells with the stop ring bullets in modern matches now days. In former years / old days, they loaded what shells they needed before the match in a separate loading area.  There are no special loading areas at modern German or Austrian rifle ranges or clubs. A shooter must load fixed ammo at home. In Germany one must have a ammunition loading license to load ammunition.   

               Joe.  

Joe,  can you find out a bit more about how they did it "back then"?  I'm curious about their match procedures

Did the guys bring their own bullets, powder, cases primers and tools to the range----- Then assembling their fixed ammo in the "loading area" before they went to the firing positions for their turn?  Why not do it at home?  (maybe to avoid taxes and rules on personal stuff).
  I've read somewhere about them buying powders in pre-measured packets for individual rounds and wondering about the whys and wherefores of that

Thanks Fred,
I have Donnelly's book but, I've found MANY mistakes in it. Have you compared it with any other drawing? I'll look at his drawing again.

The thing that I most would like to have is the drawing of the chamber. I'm most interested in the stop ring area and how it transitions to the bore and groove. But the neck area is of interest, too, on other guns. Things such as the taper of the neck as well as the diameter. I think I know where the shoulder ends but, it's very hard to tell where it starts and the angle of it. I'll check that out on the Donnelly drawing, too.

It seems like the old Single Shot news had a article on some of the bullet designs, 2bout 20 years ago, I'll see if I can find that, too.

BTW, since this is in the relading section........ What kind of loads have people had success with?

My best load has been,
13.0 gr 4227, F150 primers (it was a cold day, 40 deg, rifle primer might have done better for ES)
173 gr bullet, 24/1 
BSed, Darr lube
1356 fps
SD 18.9
ES 57
Group, .62 @ 100

Frank

I took a close look at the brass for my rifles. It appears the old fired cases have a slightly longer neck and a bit more pronounced shoulder than the cases fired in the newer rifle. OAL is exactly the same. 

                       Joe.

Joe, would it be possible to get contact information regarding thos Zika .321 stop ring slugs?

QuestionableMaynard8130 wrote on Dec 26^th, 2010 at 9:24am:


I layed out your questions to Biggi yesterday Wayne.  She says you could write a book about loading and a book about how matches were run from 1862 to 1912. Too difficult to address such a vast subject  here.  Here is a link to the scoring system from 150 years ago that modern day Bavarians have adopted for use now. (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
Biggi says the Austrians do it different. So you see the problem trying to explain all of it. The last three days we have been going around and around about whether the German shooters ever used three sights at the same time on a rifle in a match. Biggi says no, I counter with the fact that so many German rifles were equipped with a barrel sight. And almost all German target rifles had a rib for a barrel sight.  
Biggi says the shooters at the turn of the century loaded there ammunition on tables with partitions. So that each shooter could have a spot to keep his things in order. Some ranges had separate loading rooms and some had the tables located behind the firing line. 
Why did the shooters load at the range?. Biggi says most shooters had ten or twenty shells. 30 shot match would require reloading.

Joe, would it not make sense for the multiple sight theory depending on the combiation of matches held at an event?
I've some documentation regarding matches where there were Feld matches using the bbl mounted "military" rear, eagle targets, and/or 200-300 matches. My Aydt has the rear convertible diopter with blocked open rear with adjustable width, a proper feld sight and four post rotating front blade and was told that all were used in single matches plus the higher rear sight for longer distance that was never secured with the rifle. I have seen cased sight sets with notations that in some matches any or all would be switched out and used on a single gun. 
I have been told that the very existance of these multiple blade front sights is because of the need to match up with swapped out rears durring matches. Made sense to me.