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Romeo 33 Delta
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Want to build a 44-77 ... need your input
Oct 30th, 2010 at 1:20am
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I was wanting to build a 44-77 on a Ruger (probably) and wanted your input as to who's barrel I should look at and what specs I should consider.  This will be a new caliber for me so I'm completely in the dark.  Thanks!
  
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nuclearcricket
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Re: Want to build a 44-77 ... need your input
Reply #1 - Oct 30th, 2010 at 4:40am
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Romeo, this is a thread I have been thinking about starting and you just beat me to the punch.  Like you I would like to have a 44-77 but unlike you I am considering putting one on a rolling block I have.  I have been doing some research and have seemed to find the most information over on the Shiloh Rifle Forum. There are a hand full of shooters on there that enjoy this caliber as well as some of its siblings, the 44-90, the 44-70 and several of the 44 straights. 
Greenmountain makes a 17 twist .44 barrel but to my dissapointment they do not offer it in the Winchester #4 weight, which I think would be about the proper size for my roller. However in your case, a round blank may be what you would prefer. 
BACO (Buffalow Arms Co) offers several off the shelf molds for this; caliber and Jamison is now selling proper stamped, brand new manufactured brass. 
The things that I have not seen, or have missed over on that board is who makes the best, proper reamer for this caliber, as well as what is the best lead to have put in the throat. I have seen both 11 and 7 degree leads mentioned but no one seems to say what is best. I do know that if you plan on using paper patched bullets, you will want some lead into the rifling as opposed to just the standard reamer will put in. 
Hopefully there are one or more shooters that enjoy the 44-77 on here that will jump in and help both of us out.
Sam
  
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Romeo 33 Delta
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Re: Want to build a 44-77 ... need your input
Reply #2 - Oct 30th, 2010 at 11:24pm
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I'll check out Green Mountain ... I pretty much have other items lined up ... but the barrel was bustin' my chops!

Thanks
  
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zrifleman
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Re: Want to build a 44-77 ... need your input
Reply #3 - Oct 31st, 2010 at 1:54am
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If I remember right Kelley Roos who posts on the Shiloh forum and others, has a 44-77 built on a hiwall. I'm sure he can offer suggestions.
  
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John Taylor
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Re: Want to build a 44-77 ... need your input
Reply #4 - Oct 31st, 2010 at 3:31pm
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Before you get too carried away looking for barrels, remember the 44-77 uses a .446 bullet. McGowen has a 11.2 MM barrel that has a .440 groove. I didn't see anything close at Douglas. Green Mt show a 44-77 #3 and #5  but I did not see the bore/groove size listed. Might need to call them and see.
A Ruger looks good with a #3 barrel. May need to bend the forearm hanger down a little to clear. I think I have the 44-77 chamber reamer.
  

John Taylor   Machinist/gunsmith
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nuclearcricket
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Re: Want to build a 44-77 ... need your input
Reply #5 - Oct 31st, 2010 at 7:48pm
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The bore/grove dimensions for the Green mountain barrels are .438/.446 with a 17" twist. If you would like a different make barrel, go to Buffaloarms.com, they carry badger, Douglas and kreiger barrels and blanks. 
I don't know why, but at one point Green mountain offered a #4 weight barrel in .44 but now you can only get a #3, #3.5, and a #5. 
Personally I would like to have a #4 to put on my roller but in all probability will end up using the #3.5. 
The 17" twist should allow you to shoot well up into the mid to upper 500gr. weight range wthout any problems and should stabilize that weight out to 800 to 1000 yards.
I hope you keep us informed on the progress of your project and how well it shoots when its finished.
Sam
  
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Old-Win
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Re: Want to build a 44-77 ... need your input
Reply #6 - Nov 1st, 2010 at 10:14am
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You might want to do a little more research on your rate of twist.  I believe on the Shiloh site, there was discussion that the 17" was to slow. Bob
  
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Old-Win
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Re: Want to build a 44-77 ... need your input
Reply #7 - Nov 1st, 2010 at 6:39pm
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I would like to correct myself on what I said in the previous post. A 1-17" twist .44 should be fine. There was a fellow at Lodi this fall that had trouble with the 44 but I believe he was shooting a 1-19" twist.  There is some talk here of trying 1-16" but so far I think it's just talk.  I'm sorry for the earlier post.  Bob
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Romeo 33 Delta
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Re: Want to build a 44-77 ... need your input
Reply #8 - Nov 1st, 2010 at 6:58pm
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Thanks, Troops ... loads of GREAT information.
  
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nuclearcricket
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Re: Want to build a 44-77 ... need your input
Reply #9 - Nov 1st, 2010 at 7:09pm
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Bob, the good folks at Shiloh use a 1-19 twist on their '74 Sharps rifles and from what I gather from reading the Shiloh boards they do shoot well.  Yes there is some talk on there about using a 1-16 twist on the .44's but I think, that those people are looking at 800 to 1000 yard use for the 44-77 and others of that family.
IMHO, the best thing to do is figure what ranges and uses you are going to be involved with, then pick the bullet weights you plan to use, do the math with the greenhill formula and get a barrel with the proper twist.
If 1000 yard work is your goal with a very long heavy bullet then by all means look for a faster twist. If shorter ranges and lighter bullets then a little slower twist will most likely get the job done.
For me personally, I think that a GM with a 17 twist will do everything I want it to do.  For Silly-wets with a 500 gr postel bullet, that twist should be more than enough and should still hold out to 1000 yds should I ever want to give that game a try. For hunting, a 400 gr. flat point should still shoot very well out to 200yds or so. 
In doing the research on the 44-77, I have come to 2 conclusions, the first being that it can be a lot of work and frustrating to get things just in the right combination to shoot well.  The second being that once you hit that majic point, and everything comes together,  you will have something that will work beyond your expectations.
These are just my opinions, your mileage may vary, but its my story and I am sticking to it.
Sam
  
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