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NGrifleman
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Winchester Low Wall .22 LR
Aug 29th, 2010 at 1:30pm
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I bought one of the new Winchester low walls in .22 LR.  I wanted to use it for smallbore silhouette, ASSRA matches & in the NRA Lever Action rifle silhouette (one of the local clubs allows me to use both the .22 LR Low Wall - for the smallbore and my high wall in 38-55 win for the rifle silhouettes.   

the problem is that the low wall had a 3 and a half pound trigger. just a tad to heavy. when i took it to my favorite gunsmith they set it back to where it was really nice but  at the next shoot one of the springs broke and it wouldn't go past half cock.  when I took it back to the gunsmith they couldn't figure out why the spring broke. they have tried to work on it several times but still cant get the hammer to go past half cock, that is after the trigger is pulled. it will go to full cock but when trigger is pulled it stops at half cock. they told me it as the browning trigger in it and they are not sure what to do or where to go from here. I called a couple of the places that are making low wall reproductions and the cost of one of there triggers is up in and over the $500. heck the rifle only cost 900.   

I called Winchester and found out they will put the trigger back to 3.5 lb trigger pull and they wouldn't set it any lower period, even after I told them I was using it for competition. I guess it is back to my Ruger single shot, it started its life as a 45-70. lol And is now a .22 LR. I had it made so that it balances like my Alexander Henry sporting rifle a .40 cal roundball muzzle loader. 

can anyone make a suggestion about the trigger on the Winchester low wall. I would really rather use it than the Ruger #1 mostly because I don't want to fit the Ruger with a tang sight and have to move the scope off and on. I plan on using the Ruger in the open class and the low wall in the hunting class with just peep sights.

thank you in advance!
  
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Chuckster
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Re: Winchester Low Wall .22 LR
Reply #1 - Aug 29th, 2010 at 10:22pm
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NGr,
I'll speculate then let the experts chime in. First thought fly, but 3+ pounds, guessing single trigger. Would guess someone removed metal from the hammer to reduce the sear engagement to improve trigger pull. Not enough clearance, now catching on half cock. A little more trigger over travel might fix it unless you have a very slow trigger squeeze, otherwise a new hammer and shim the sear out to reduce engagement. If it is one of the Japanese Browning's, forget everything I said and find an expert.
Chuck
  
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Set_Trigger
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Re: Winchester Low Wall .22 LR
Reply #2 - Aug 29th, 2010 at 10:52pm
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Aren't the Japanese Browning and the Japanese Winchester both made by the same Japanese company and to the same specs. ?
  S T
  
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Re: Winchester Low Wall .22 LR
Reply #3 - Aug 30th, 2010 at 7:15am
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NRA Used to have a 3 lb Hunter class trigger rule now its less. Silhouette rifle class which the low wall fits due weight no limit.

Lots of winning scores fired with 3 lb triggers Might be easier to shoot it as is than try to adjust it.  They are not easy to work on. Guy at our club shoots one real well NRA rules modern  silhouette

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Re: Winchester Low Wall .22 LR
Reply #4 - Aug 30th, 2010 at 8:06am
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Don't know where you (and the rifle) are, but this board's own singleshot is the person with whom I am personally comfortable to work on these actions... he's not the only one out there, but the only one with whom I have personal experience.  If your gunsmith went into the action unknowingly, he may have disturbed the delicate, lawyer inspired, hammer blocking safety that comes up after the trigger has been pulled and the hammer has had a predetermined time to fall.   

I don't understand all I know about these things, but I do know that they are much too tricky to be worked on by just anyone, and that the damage done by making small wrong moves becomes magnified by the design features.  Good luck with it! 

Froggie
  
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screwloosetc
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Re: Winchester Low Wall .22 LR
Reply #5 - Aug 30th, 2010 at 11:42pm
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with all the negative stuff I have read about the Jap Winchesters I think I would be looking for a descent 12/15 Martini
  
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texasmac
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Re: Winchester Low Wall .22 LR
Reply #6 - Aug 31st, 2010 at 1:05am
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NGrifleman

I 2nd Green_Frog's comments.  To properly handle many of the cocking and firing sequence problems with the Miroku manufactured High Walls & Low Walls (both actions are very similar and share many of the same parts) you need to find a gunsmith that fully understands the Browning actions.  With that said I'm betting the spring that broke was the hammer sear spring.  If a new one was improperly installed or a gunsmith tried to make a new one, one of the results is the hammer catching in the 1/2 cock position when fired.  There are other causes but issues with the hammer sear spring is by far the most likely reason.

Should you find someone to solve the 1/2 cock problem, a well know gunsmith by the name of Lee Shaver can safely modify the trigger sear to give you a real nice 2 lb trigger.  Lee has been working on Browning's for years.  He still does trigger sear work for the Browning's, but I believe he's no long accepting firearms for repair.  You pull the trigger/sear out, which is easy, and send it to him along with $35.  In a week or two you'll get the trigger/sear back along with a new trigger spring.

Wayne

Wayne
« Last Edit: Aug 31st, 2010 at 1:14am by texasmac »  

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Re: Winchester Low Wall .22 LR
Reply #7 - Aug 31st, 2010 at 1:23am
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NGrifleman

Some additional comments on the trigger.  No one makes a set trigger or a modified trigger of any type for your rifle.  As far as I know the places that make low wall reproductions base their designs on the original Win. low walls.  The action parts, trigger, etc. are totally different and much more complicated in the Win./Miroku low walls.  None of the parts from the original design will interchange with the modern Win. design.

Wayne
  

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Re: Winchester Low Wall .22 LR
Reply #8 - Aug 31st, 2010 at 8:14am
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You do read internet negative on the Jap Winchesters however at our Club matches they are the  rifle most often seen on the firing line. Readily available at the local gun shop and work out of the box with no trips to the gunsmith.

They win our matches too, I suspect you see the same in other parts of the country.

Boats
  
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NGrifleman
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Re: Winchester Low Wall .22 LR
Reply #9 - Aug 31st, 2010 at 3:52pm
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First, thank you all for the answers and you hit it right on the head it is the Japanese made Winchester, which has the browning trigger.  I am glad I posted the question because i was starting to think that I would have to drill a hole in the trigger face and put a pin in there that would reach the firing pin.  Trust me that was purely a last ditch idea and I would have probably sold the gun first and bought the Uberti low wall which I have heard good things about. in fact wife had already ok'd the purchase of the Uberti.  Now I think Lee Shaver will get some of my money instead.

Which brings up another question.  I have been told by a gunsmith or two and read an article that says the .22 LR actually looses velocity in a barrel over 20 inches.  I don't have access to a chronograph right now so have no way to test this. and all the Uberti low walls come with a 30" barrel.

Oh and there is no fly in this trigger, which (mostly being a muzzle loader myself) was the very first thing I thought.  I had not read anything bad about the Japanese made rifles or I might not have bought it.  I do have a Winchester high wall in .38-55 win that has a great trigger in it. don't know the pull weight but it is nice. not sure what it is except really nice.

One last thing, I talked to the peeps at A Named Company the makes reproductions of Win. High and Low Walls amongst other rifles and they were the ones that said their low wall trigger could be made to work in my rifle but it would cost at least $500 or more to purchase and install. not sure how it would work from what has been said but there it is just for info.

Again I want to thank you for all the comments and suggestions!
  
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Re: Winchester Low Wall .22 LR
Reply #10 - Aug 31st, 2010 at 4:07pm
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Might be .22's  loose velocity in barrels over 20 inches but some fine work has been done with 28 inch barrels.  Velocity is not real important punching holes in paper.

There is a article in the new Precision shooting about a guy who altered his Anschutz 54 MS, back bored with a very short rifled section. Idea is thue bullet has less barrel time which is seen by some to be of advantage  offhand

I have never seen his name in the winners circle though.  Have a look at the photos of Schuetzens from the ISSA championship at Raton this year, all are long barreled.  Silouette 24 inches is the most common by far.

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Re: Winchester Low Wall .22 LR
Reply #11 - Aug 31st, 2010 at 7:26pm
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I seriously doubt that you can find a Uberti 22 LR. I've had one on order since just after Christmas. None have came into the USA. And since I ordered mine I've heard a lot of bad reports about Uberti having chambering problems with their 22 low walls. Just a heads up for you.
I also have the Winchester 1885 22LR. of the Japanese manufacture. Came across it in a trade a few weeks ago. I have a Browning BPCR too. Both of these trigger assembly's will be going to Lee when the snow starts flying.
Good luck and many bullseyes to you.
  

jack
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