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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) springfield trapdoor lock options (Read 20533 times)
nobearsyet
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Re: springfield trapdoor lock options
Reply #15 - Aug 7th, 2010 at 12:25am
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The style is pretty determined at what I like to call a "modernistic gemmer george schuetzen" style of rifle if that makes any since at all.  It will be a half stock, that is for absolute certain.  It'll have a straight wrist (just because that's what I think is the most comfortable to shoot) with a kind of half weatherby half rolling block with a dab of schuetzen style thrown into the comb with schuetzen style buttplate as they look kind of cool to me.  I think I'm going to stick with the half octagon barrel with a single wedding band at the transition like on a trade gun.  Vernier tang sight as it is being built primarily for some impromptu BPCR competition with the back action lock being the final determination as it has a shorter locktime according to the folks at L&R and I'll come up with some sort of decorative plate for the opposite side if for no other reason than because I can.  Globe front sight with spirit level as that's what I like.  Stock made from a piece of SP++ curly maple (as I have a good source back home in OH) with a forend cap made from either german silver or copper (as we all know I like to be different) and something yet to be determined for decorative inlay work as I like looking at them and making them with a trapdoor grip cap (as it seems fitting on a trapdoor rifle) so if it fits into some sort of design please let me know as I don't think it does at all.  It'll definitely be different.  But then again I am the same guy that took an uberti 1851 navy colt replica converted it to 38 long colt and fitted a bisley backstrap and steel frontstrap like elmer keith did with his number 5 SAA and proceeded to shoot it for several months in cowboy action as everyone looked at it and repeatedly asked what is it?  I definitely like them different.  But then again isn't that what this is all about?
  
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trapdoor Dick
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Re: springfield trapdoor lock options
Reply #16 - Aug 7th, 2010 at 9:34am
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I like it George. Sounds like we are on the same page. If'n ya don't think so, look again at the TD Scheutzen on the stuff I sent you. Smiley May add to your inspirations and ideas on side plate, inlays and trim. I was going to use GS, but went with ivory instead. Please keep us all informed on the progress. Unless you have anything else drastic, I thinks it's time to quit jawin' and get to buildin'.  Wink 

Dick
  

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb. - Benjamin Franklin
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nobearsyet
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Re: springfield trapdoor lock options
Reply #17 - Aug 7th, 2010 at 10:16am
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I actually still have a little bit of jawin time, I don't have all of the parts yet, I bought a stripped receiver and am now hunting down everything I need to complete it (stuff like hinge pin, opening cam stuff, etc) and waiting on some stuff that has to be ordered from suppliers and what not (lock, DST assembly, etc) but I have been able to do some work.  I've got everything stripped, my stock template started, the tang will be lengthened shortly after I get home (working on the road right now) and some other little bits and pieces type of stuff.
  
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trapdoor Dick
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Re: springfield trapdoor lock options
Reply #18 - Aug 7th, 2010 at 5:50pm
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George, if'n ya have a problem acquiring ANY TD parts, give me a holler. If I don't have it, I've 've got sources that will and at the fair and right prices. Same with anything else you need. Look forward to hearing from you.

Dick

PS I took the 32-40 TD Scheutzen out this morning and had a good time.
  

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb. - Benjamin Franklin
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nobearsyet
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Re: springfield trapdoor lock options
Reply #19 - Aug 8th, 2010 at 12:49pm
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Well I've got everything soaking in motor oil now to keep corrosion as a nonexistent factor while I hunt for everything else, project is taking a bit of a twist however.  Have decided to use an arsenal lock after all.  I pulled a back action out of another gun in the safe and laid it out with my stock drawing and decided it just wasn't going to look right then I laid my leman lock down and decided I'd just stash it away for the original project.  A buddy of mine is working on making me that new tumbler and we'll go from there, so far as far as lock parts go I have a tumbler in the works, and a type 2 hammer, just got find the rest of it now.
  
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trapdoor Dick
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Re: springfield trapdoor lock options
Reply #20 - Aug 8th, 2010 at 6:25pm
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Good going George. With the fly it does take on a new perspective. The TD NW Trade Gun looks good with the military lock. very right, like a late percussion Northwest gun. What is different is that I swapped out the late hammer for an 1861 percussion hammer. Wow, is it different. So ugly it's really cute  Undecidedand looks just RIGHT in this gun.  Roll Eyes. My barrel tester uses a military lock. It's a half stock in kind of NW Type "G" or maybe French on a left over piece of cherry. It's  cute, not really anything but does it's job, so it's  OK by me. So, now you haave most of your "stuff", I waiting to see it done. Good going George. Wink Smiley

Dick
  

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb. - Benjamin Franklin
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Re: springfield trapdoor lock options
Reply #21 - Aug 9th, 2010 at 8:18am
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Glad to hear you are going Arsenal for the lock, it's a personal bias of mine 

On the set up. Sounds like you are a good metal man. If so thing I would do is weld a tang on the action to give a better tang sight mount.  I have and still do shoot a lot of issue Trapdoors and one time had one of the H&R officers reproductions. Weak point with the H&R other than build & material quality was the lack of good tang sight mounting. Screwed to the wood is a poor compromise and reason I sold it off. Could not count on the zeros match to match.

Put a nice wiping rod on the gun however. For actual  Trapdoor shooting we are using "spaghetti' cleaning rods. Get a piece of Delrin it takes threads for a jag good as metal and in 1/4 inch is flexible enough to wipe the bore from the breech. All it takes is a quick wipe shot to shot, Scrub it clean from the muzzle with a Arsenal type wood rod that has a Delrin or wood muzzle guide indexing on the outside of the barrel.

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nobearsyet
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Re: springfield trapdoor lock options
Reply #22 - Aug 10th, 2010 at 4:54pm
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Tang lengthening has always been part of the equation.  The rifle is being built expressly for BPCR use so a tang sight is a neccesity not a nicety.  I do think I am going to forgo the wiping rod though.  I may put something in the buttstock but nothing is going under the barrel, for the style of rifle I'm building I don't think a rod would look right.  I may put a trap in the schuetzen style plate I'm going to use and make something in sections out of 1/4" dowel or something never know with me.
  
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Chuckster
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Re: springfield trapdoor lock options
Reply #23 - Aug 10th, 2010 at 10:53pm
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Bears,
Sounds like you are headed down the right track.  Glance at the rules for BPCR Silhouette Stocks. Comb, 3/4" below bore. no hooked buttplates, etc. Don't know if they apply to all BPCR.
Chuck
  
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Re: springfield trapdoor lock options
Reply #24 - Aug 11th, 2010 at 5:14pm
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Target range only you don't need a rod.  You do need to wipe BPC guns.  Blow tube is good during a relay, after best to give it a wet/dry patch.  Schuetzen when you have plenty of time wipe it every shot.

Way I shoot them anyway.

Boats
  
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nobearsyet
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Re: springfield trapdoor lock options
Reply #25 - Aug 12th, 2010 at 2:05pm
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Well, I guess that kills most of my stock design, guess it,ll be mostly traditional then, maybe a winchester flat buttplate.  Like off the model 70.  It'll still look ok, but a straight wrist should be ok.  Oh well, I have a couple receivers so I guess I'll just have to build a couple rifles, 32-40 schuetzen sounds good for plinking and deer.
  
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Re: springfield trapdoor lock options
Reply #26 - Aug 12th, 2010 at 6:23pm
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Thing about BPCS is you have to have a flat plate, Rules yes but the rule is that way because recoil is painful in the Cross Stick position with any other shape.

Look at the Arsenal long range trapdoor rifles that the Government team shot at Creedmore. They used a Hotchkiss stock shape from the trigger guard back, and a flat shotgun butt plate.

Sporting use to my eye nothing has been built better looking or more useful than the Arsenal Officers models.  Match shooting from prone the Arsenal long range rifles.  Take a good look at either and don't deviate much is my advice.

BPCS is a hybrid match 3/4 prone from Sticks and 1/4 offhand, makes it difficult to build the optimal rifle. Most go for the prone gun and struggle on the offhand leg.   

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nobearsyet
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Re: springfield trapdoor lock options
Reply #27 - Aug 12th, 2010 at 8:19pm
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I think I can the dimensions right for me with regards to off hand and off sticks.  I've done it before with target style muzzleloading guns.  Just need to read the rule book and find out just what I can and can't do as far as design goes.  Is there anything in the rule book about the so called "shad belly" style forends? My book hasn't got here yet.
  
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Re: springfield trapdoor lock options
Reply #28 - Aug 13th, 2010 at 1:18pm
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It's pretty specific and a lot of words.  Best to get it in hand.  Way they measure at the Nationals is useing a jig. Friend of mine had to rasp off part of his stock one year.  They allow Cresent plates if it does not have a lot of cresent. To my mind this is the best way to go if using a light recoiler, but I favor offhand shooting and don't like compromises.

I will agree you can shoot a flat plate offhand, I had to when shooting BPCS, before I gave it up for Schuetzen. Service Rifle shooters using AR's have figured out a way to shoot them offhand, with only a fraction of inch bottom of the toe touching the shoulder.  Neither is the optiomal solution, just making the postion fit the rules.

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nobearsyet
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Re: springfield trapdoor lock options
Reply #29 - Aug 21st, 2010 at 11:37pm
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Ok, next stupid question.  I have a reasonably reliable and steady source for titanium, is there anything that says I might couldn't make a hammer out of it?  Probably help speed up the lock time a bunch, and a titanium firing pin will be in the works as soon as I get a pin to pattern off of as I've used them in several turnbolt and semiauto guns with good results?
  
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