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vol717
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Calibers for a Pair of Highwalls
Jul 25th, 2010 at 11:28pm
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I am in the process of having American Gun Company build me a pair of highwalls on their new 1885 actions.  I have had the actions engraved and some trigger work done and they are ready for completion.  The guns will be their highest grade. The rifles will have 26"octagon to round barrels, and they will have a fast taper for light weight with Talley scope bases and Talley's backup aperture sight.  My plan has always been to have one made in .30-40 Krag but the second caliber is not so clear.  I want a vintage cartridge, but I'd prefer a .22 centerfire that can propel 55 grain bullets at 3000 fps or more at the muzzle. Smaller calibers like the .218 Bee won't get there, nor will the K Hornet.  I'm thinking more and more that the  219 Zipper probably is the best candidate, but I don't think cases are available any more and I don't want to have to start forming cases from 30-30s.   Were there any 219 Zippers in factory guns?  I assume that it was a favorite cartridge in converted Highwalls at one time.  Does anyone have actual experience loading and using a Zipper in a Highwall?  Are there other drawbacks to this cartridge?
  
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peterson2520ss
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Re: Calibers for a Pair of Highwalls
Reply #1 - Jul 26th, 2010 at 2:08am
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Winchester made some barrels for Highwalls in both .218 Bee and .219 Zipper.  Before the second World War you could send a Highwall in and have a round barrel installed.

My Highwall .219 Zipper is a none factory barrelled heavy barrel built during the 50's.  It shoots 55 grain V-Max bullets at 3200 fps into less then 3/4 inch all day.

Det
  
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tim_s
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Re: Calibers for a Pair of Highwalls
Reply #2 - Jul 26th, 2010 at 1:34pm
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The Zipper loading from 30-30 is really no big deal. I have a straight Zipper made by C.C. Meredith, Ontario, Can who was a chuck hunting buddy of Landis. It will push a 55 Sierra BTSP at over 3200fps with no pressure using 4895 out of a 27" barrel.
  

“ I don’t have to be faster than the bear, I just have to be faster than you”
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boats
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Re: Calibers for a Pair of Highwalls
Reply #3 - Jul 26th, 2010 at 4:03pm
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I had a Zipper barrel for my CPA, using C&F's forming dies it's hardly any work at all to make them out of 30/30 Take the time it takes  you to re-size a case to re-load. Forming is about twice the time and you only have to do it once.  You have to do right much to a new lot of brass anway and forming down from 30 to 22 is just another step. Not to mention you are forever out of the clutches of brass shortages given how many 30/30's there are out there

I liked the caliber, it's as capable as a .222 Remington but if I did it again I think I would chamber for the Donaldson Wasp. It's just a straight sided Zipper.  From using the K Hornet and having used the regular Hornet there are some big advantages to straight sides for single shots that don't need to worry about magazine feeding. Straight sides only need neck sizing and not much trimming,  they don't grow like strong taper cases do.  You should be able to push the Donaldson Wasp a bit more than a Zipper, to .223 levels without any problem.

However if I was setting up a pair of Highwalls one with the excellent .30 US cartridge and considering it's ability to handle heavy bullets, would set the 2nd gun up on the same case and probably a 25 caliber wildcat with twist to suit a varmint bullet and/or long range thin skin game bullet.

For the light caliber varmint gun would go to a low wall and the K Hornet

My opinion only

Boats
  
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frnkeore
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Re: Calibers for a Pair of Highwalls
Reply #4 - Jul 26th, 2010 at 6:55pm
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Another option is the 225 Winchester. One of my Hi Walls is chambered for it. You can get almost 22-250 velocity's out of it. My best load is 33.0 gr Varget for about 3600+ fps in a 28" barrel. Not quite original but it's Winchester and has a rim that works with a extractor Smiley I also have a original Hi Wall Action in 30/40 with a 12 twist A&M barrel that was built for CBA matches back in the 70's. I've shot 5/16th groups @ 100 with it useing 190 Seirra's. Both these guns have nice varmit stocks but, I would dearly love to have a 25 Krag on the full lenght case. They will do better than the P+ Roberts. A great one for a do everything gun.

Frank

  

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Re: Calibers for a Pair of Highwalls
Reply #5 - Jul 26th, 2010 at 9:22pm
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It's very easy to form the .219 Zipper from .25-35 brass.  Basically, just run it into the .219 die, trim a bit and go to town.  Unless you specify a tight-necked chamber, you shouldn't even have to turn the neck.

The .225 Winchester is essentially a .219 Improved Zipper with the rim turned to allow it to fit a .30-06 family bolt face.  It will do within 100-150 fps of a .22-250 with equal bullet weights.  I have a Martini Cadet chambered for the .225 and I hold it down to .222 velocities because of the thin barrel walls in the thread area, but it's still a very accurate cartridge.

If you are really seeking .222 velocities, take a look at the .222 Rimmed, which was developed expressly to provide a cartridge for Cadet actions.  Not original to the high wall action, but an excellent performer.  You could also consider a .218 Mashburn Bee, which would have been a popular wildcat cartridge for custom varmint rifles based on high wall actions.

Just some thoughts.
  
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tim_s
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Re: Calibers for a Pair of Highwalls
Reply #6 - Jul 27th, 2010 at 10:18am
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You know, as a postscript, if you are put off by the thought of forming .219 brass, it's pretty easy to just buy 50-100 formed cases and be done with it entirely.
  

“ I don’t have to be faster than the bear, I just have to be faster than you”
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vol717
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Re: Calibers for a Pair of Highwalls
Reply #7 - Jul 28th, 2010 at 5:16pm
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I talked to Sierra today and they advised that a 1/9 twist would be good for their 65 grain .224 spitzers and McGowan says it will be no problem  to make that barrel in a Zipper.  I'm shipping the actions off just as soon as I can take good pictures of the engraving.   

Thanks for all the help!
  
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Re: Calibers for a Pair of Highwalls
Reply #8 - Jul 30th, 2010 at 11:39am
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A word of caution. If you plan on driving a heavy .22 VLD type bullet fast, you're looking, generally, at somewhat of a squared up stable case, the opposite of a Zipper in a Highwall. You will, in short order, find out why the Improved Zipper got developed.
  

“ I don’t have to be faster than the bear, I just have to be faster than you”
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vol717
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Re: Calibers for a Pair of Highwalls
Reply #9 - Aug 2nd, 2010 at 11:18pm
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(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

Here are the actions in the white.  Originally I was going to have them engraved identically. But after I had the first one done with the engraving in the center of the action side, I had the engraver duplicate everything else on the first action except the diamond of engraving in the center.  The more sparsely engraved action will be the .30-40 and the other the Zipper. (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
« Last Edit: Aug 2nd, 2010 at 11:24pm by vol717 »  
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vol717
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Re: Calibers for a Pair of Highwalls
Reply #10 - Oct 5th, 2012 at 8:28am
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I haven't visited for a couple years so I'm reporting back in as to the development on the Highwall pair.  The guns were completed last year and delivered.  They turned out pretty well; not perfect, but nice.  McGowen put right hand cheekpieces on the stocks and that bothered me, as they were supposed to be lefties.  I wound up making them in  .30-40 Krag and  .225 Winchester.   Here is a photo of them, plus a link to an album of photos.    (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)


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frnkeore
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Re: Calibers for a Pair of Highwalls
Reply #11 - Oct 5th, 2012 at 11:56am
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Beautiful rifles! May I ask who did the engraving?

Frank
  

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vol717
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Re: Calibers for a Pair of Highwalls
Reply #12 - Oct 5th, 2012 at 8:50pm
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The engraver is a contract engraver for Colts.  He won't permit me to give out his name.  He's so busy that I can't get him to do any more work anyway.
  
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SSShooter
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Re: Calibers for a Pair of Highwalls
Reply #13 - Oct 7th, 2012 at 6:23pm
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Very nice. 
Have also had problems with McGowen in the past. Sold me a barrel marked 14" (1-in-14 twist) when it was actually a 1-in-16". They made me whole, but was a waste of six months
  

Glenn - 2x CPA 44 1/2 w/22LR (Shilen ratchet-rifled & Bartlein 5R rifled), 38-40RH & 38-55WCF (Bartlein 5R rifled) & 40-65WCF (GrnMtn 'X') barrels
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