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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Liner or re-barrel? (Read 22231 times)
screwloosetc
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Re: Liner or re-barrel?
Reply #15 - Jul 21st, 2010 at 6:27pm
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John
What limits do they put on the rifle? Sounds like a good place for a Martini 12/15.Mine will stay in 2.5 at 200 no qualms about trying it at 300.  22rf more eficient than you think.
Tom
  
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jk
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Re: Liner or re-barrel?
Reply #16 - Jul 21st, 2010 at 6:39pm
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Hi Tom,
There are three classes, scope, open sights, and tang sights. 
It looks like the Summer Relay will be starting July 13th

John
  
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screwloosetc
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Re: Liner or re-barrel?
Reply #17 - Jul 21st, 2010 at 6:55pm
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John
What is the dominant rifle? who wins the most.
Tom
  
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westerner
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Re: Liner or re-barrel?
Reply #18 - Jul 21st, 2010 at 7:09pm
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One time me and my first wife were out in the pickup looking for Coyotes. We spied one way way out there. We got to wondering if we should take a shot. The wife said go ahead, take a shot. She said theres no way you can hit that Coyote at that distance.. I aimed what I thought was about ten feet over it's back. I had a new Remington 540 SS rifle. I think thats the correct model number. 541??  Anyway, I let go with the shot. We waited what seemed like  long time. Finally that Coyote jumped in the air and seemed to turn a complete revolution in its own hide. When it hit the grown again it was off on a dead run. That's when we noticed it was the neighbors Irish Setter.  We resorted to the ( dont ask, dont tell ) policy.  It was way way way out there. It looked like a Coyote.  Smiley It did. 

               Joe.
  

A blind squirrel runs into a tree every once in a while.
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jk
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Re: Liner or re-barrel?
Reply #19 - Jul 21st, 2010 at 7:24pm
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John
What is the dominant rifle? who wins the most.
Tom


I could not tell you Tom. But I know there is at least one scoped Martini.
I just might have to go watch them next week and see what the competition looks like.  Wink
  
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John Taylor
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Re: Liner or re-barrel?
Reply #20 - Jul 22nd, 2010 at 10:28am
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I don't usually get to shoot the rifles I work on at targets but there was this one that came back. Customer complained it would not shoot so I mounted a scope on it because of my tired old eyes and proceeded to the range. Sure enough it did not like bulk Remington ammo and had close to 3" group at 40 yards. I was not to happy but another smith told me that the ammo might be the problem so I ran some CCI standard velocity through it and all the holes were touching at the same distance.  Most of my customer say the liners shoot great, the rest don't say anything except the one that came back for not shooting good.
Shooting a 22 at 300 yards sounds like fun. Probably compare to shooting muzzle loaders with round ball at 200 yards. Only the ones who practice hit the targets.   Wink
  

John Taylor   Machinist/gunsmith
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sakoman
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Re: Liner or re-barrel?
Reply #21 - Jul 22nd, 2010 at 11:01am
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What is the approximate cost to reline something like a Stevens Favorite with a TJ liner?

Does TJ make liners in other calibers like 17 Mach II or 32-40?  No I am not considering the Favorite action for those!
  
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creedmoormatch
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Re: Liner or re-barrel?
Reply #22 - Jul 22nd, 2010 at 12:44pm
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 Sakoman

      First let me say that it's never been confirmed that T.J. makes the hammer forged liners that are marketed by them.  The equipment to manufacture hammer forged barrels and the thin walled liners is something that is not easily acquired.  Essentially it requires a series of hammers to produce such a product.  Perhaps, T.J. makes the mandrels which are then forwarded to some third party with the very expensive hammer machine.  The British company Parker Hale had the equipment, again the extremely expensive hammer forge machine, with which to produce hammer forged barrels and used these barrels extensively on their Enfield, Volunteer, Gibbs, Whitworth, and other period muzzle loader reproduction rifles and carbines.  P.H. eventually sold off the hammer machine to another manufacturer and discontinued those very fine and desirable British manufactured reproductions, never to be seen again as new production, except from a Mediterranean country want-a-be.

Yes, T.J.'s Enterprises has an extensive listing of calibers of barrel liners available.  You spoke of the 32-40, but of course there is no chamber in the liner, that is done with a chamber reamer in conjunction with the installation of the liner.

 It has been a year since I acquired a T.J's liner but the current pricing for Retail customers, the price is $4.90 an inch plus shipping and some uncommon sizes sell for $5.50 an inch plus shipping, then add the labor costs to have it installed, fitted up, and chambered.

« Last Edit: Jul 22nd, 2010 at 8:29pm by »  
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creedmoormatch
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Re: Liner or re-barrel?
Reply #23 - Jul 22nd, 2010 at 7:50pm
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  Sakoman ---

      Just wanted to add with certainty, that T. J.'s Enterprises does not offer their hammer forged barrel liners in any of the .17" Cal rim fire configurations.  Of course, it you were to need a .22" Cal liner they (t.J.'s) have several twists available to select from.

     If you definitely need a .17 Cal, they are available in the Redman brand offered through Brownells Company.  However, I have no experience with the Redman liner products so am unable to make any recommendations to you similar to what I have RE: T.J's.

     Creedmoormatch
  
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John Taylor
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Re: Liner or re-barrel?
Reply #24 - Jul 22nd, 2010 at 8:17pm
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Thought I would straiten things out a bit. T.J.'s does offer a 17 cal., .168" bore .172" groove, 1 in 9 twist, 3/8" OD.  This has been listed on there sheet for several years and I have installed more than a few. Latest price I have listed is $3.95 per inch, ( 22 cal 5/16" liners are $2.60).   I have done business with them for quit a few years and several times the hammer forge was going when I called, could hear it going over the phone. The hammer forge machine, from what I understand, belongs to a partner.
T.J.'s is a little higher priced than Redman, you get what you pay for. As for me I quit using Redman liners a long time ago.
T.J.'s has a very good selection of liners. I show two liners for the 32-40/ 32 special, 1 in 14" and 1 in 16". Also a 32-20 liner.
If I were to install a liner for you the cost would be $220 to $320 depending on length and caliber, plus return shipping. A Stevens favorite would be $220 in 22 cal.
« Last Edit: Jul 22nd, 2010 at 8:26pm by John Taylor »  

John Taylor   Machinist/gunsmith
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creedmoormatch
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Re: Liner or re-barrel?
Reply #25 - Jul 23rd, 2010 at 7:33am
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   Sakoman ---

       Anytime a product is brought to the market place there is a two tier pricing system in most instances, but other times more than two depending on the complexity of the distribution system for that particular product.

     The first tier of pricing is at the wholesale level and the price is extended to tradespeople, retailers, jobbers, and service/repair people such as plumbers, etc., etc.

     The second tier of pricing down the chain of distribution would be the retail consumer who ultimately uses the product.  I would like to reiterate with you the fact that I earlier said;   " .   .   .  the current pricing for RETAIL customers, the price is $4.90 an inch, plus shipping .   .   .   "   Retail prices are not the same as " Dealer , Jobber or Trade " prices.  I understood at the time that you were, and still are, a retail or consumer buyer.

     For support of and for use as a comparison for the current RETAIL prices of T.J.'s Barrel Liners which I provided to you earlier, I refer you to the following catalog/price sheet.

 Once there, you will need to open  "Barrel liners breech loading rifle bore liners (37) " at which point the price of $4.89 per linear inch is the current retail price plus shipping for that particular product.

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

I had never offered to sell to you any barrel liner of any description marketed by T.J.'s Enterprises, nor was the pricing information which I brought to your attention for reference purposes an "Offer to Sell" to you, or to anyone else.

Creedmoormatch
« Last Edit: Jul 23rd, 2010 at 4:57pm by »  
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screwloosetc
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Re: Liner or re-barrel?
Reply #26 - Jul 23rd, 2010 at 8:33am
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john
Will the #4 remington rb handle the 17 cal? Your personal opinion. Is anything different about installing the 17 compared to the 22? 
Thanks for your expertise.
Tom
  
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John Taylor
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Re: Liner or re-barrel?
Reply #27 - Jul 23rd, 2010 at 9:15am
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Now I see why the price was higher, Track has to get their markup. Why go through a middle man when you can buy direct from the source and save money. T.J.'s phone 859-635-5560. 
I was looking at my last bill and it appears I get $.20 per inch discount. It looks like track has a markup of $.94 per inch. That should cover their overhead and shipping to them and make a little to put food on the table. I don't think they are stocking the liners as they are selling by the inch.
I just called to verify the latest price, it looks like I'm at the price on the old price list. The new price is $3.95 They said that Track does buy a lot of liners from them.
creedmoormatch, I'm sorry if I offended you in any way. Please except my apology. Sometimes I don't choose my word wisely. 
An after thought, when ordering a liner , always get an inch more than you need and trim off the excess after installation. You can get by with 1/2 inch if you barrel is not exact on the inch mark.
  

John Taylor   Machinist/gunsmith
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John Taylor
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Re: Liner or re-barrel?
Reply #28 - Jul 23rd, 2010 at 9:29am
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john
Will the #4 remington rb handle the 17 cal? Your personal opinion. Is anything different about installing the 17 compared to the 22? 
Thanks for your expertise.
Tom

The pressure on the modern 22 LR high velocity is the same as the 22 mag, 17 HMR and 17 Mark ll at 24,000 psi, sammi specs. If your #4 is in good shape it should be fine with the 17 cal.
The 17 cal. liner is 3/8" diameter and works fine in every rifle I have used it in except the simi auto. It seems the pressure curve is different and the brass will bulge at the base with a floating breach block. Seems strange but the cure is drilling a few holes in the breach and filling it with lead. This is not adding much weight but deadens the bolt sort of like a dead blow hammer. I'm sure the factory 17s are not using lead but are using a different alloy with different springs.
  

John Taylor   Machinist/gunsmith
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creedmoormatch
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Re: Liner or re-barrel?
Reply #29 - Jul 23rd, 2010 at 5:13pm
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 My advice is to seek out a true barrel smith, the one that comes to mind is Mr. John Taylor who entered his appearance in the posting pertaining to the adhesive used for liner installations. 

Creedmoormatch


John;   

Many thanks for your personal note to me today and for your most gracious apology.  I do forgive you as I am called to do; just as He has forgiven me 70 times 70.

Webb
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