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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Firing Pin Alloy? (Read 21360 times)
Cat_Whisperer
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Re: Firing Pin Alloy?
Reply #15 - Jul 4th, 2010 at 4:41pm
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I like it!  Ductile.  Hard.  Strong.  Exactly what's needed.
  

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screwloosetc
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Re: Firing Pin Alloy?
Reply #16 - Jul 4th, 2010 at 5:12pm
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I wonder how many guns out there have a firing pin made from a nail?
Tom
  
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Green_Frog
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Re: Firing Pin Alloy?
Reply #17 - Jul 4th, 2010 at 5:21pm
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WOW!! "Ask a simple question..."  Roll Eyes

Fitzie, it looks like you are my winner, although John Taylor's car trunk spring stock entry runs a close second.  I will be sending you (FITZ) a PM about the time you get back home with dimensional info, and will probably make one out of spring stock as well just in case.

The rest of the story;  This firing pin looks a lot like the ones you see on any number of shotguns and single shot hammer rifles.  It is just a cylindrical piece of multiple diameters with a square notch milled across for the retaining screw.  The "flies in the ointment" are that all dimensions are relatively longer, the notch is rather deep and cut in the smallest diameter of the pin (except for the firing pin protrusion itself) and the 1873 Model design keep a big old percussion style hammer that really whacks the whole thing rather smartly.  With most pin failures, however, we see a breaking off at the point where the very long protrusion comes out of the nose of the pin, a situation that would be cured by Westerner's recipe, but since this particular one broke at the front of the notch, I suspect other dynamics involved and asked for a good alloy for the whole pin.  I think that the  17-4 PH and car spring both look hopeful based on what I now will have access to, and if they both fail to make the cut, I'll probably have to go looking for one of the exotics like the beryllium alloy suggested by DWS. As a side note, I wonder if old Doc Maynard had all this stuff to deal with, and if not, why not?  Wink

Thanks again to all who responded,
Charlie Shaeff
aka the Green Frog
  
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screwloosetc
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Re: Firing Pin Alloy?
Reply #18 - Jul 4th, 2010 at 5:54pm
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Charlie 
The secret to it is cutting and polishiing the notch after heat treat. That is what makes the grade 5 bolt look good.
Tom
  
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frnkeore
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Re: Firing Pin Alloy?
Reply #19 - Jul 4th, 2010 at 6:29pm
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I am a machinist and have worked with many tool steels as well as just about everything used in aircraft.

First, a caution regarding Beryllium. Wear a very good resperator. That stuff can kill your lungs!! Even just making a firing pin. I've always refused to work on the stuff.

Next, I offer these things, S-7 is a shock resistant tool steel (used in such things as air hammer tools) and it might be the answer.

For other air harding tool steels H-10 thur 13 are very ductile. I think A-2 and D-2 would be to brittle.

303 SS might be ok, too as well as the case hardened 1010 steel, be carefull not to over do the firing pin tip area or use a insert for the tip.

Making sure the hole is straight, with no taper and concentric with the firing pin tip is extremely important to rule out any bending moments.

Lots more to consider,

Frank
  

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MAD MIKE
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Re: Firing Pin Alloy?
Reply #20 - Jul 4th, 2010 at 7:02pm
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Charlie,  Had the same experience as JFeldman,kept breaking firing pin in my 44 1/2 Stevens (talk about hard on firing pins) & the late Bill Bieber made me a new one from a socket head allen screw,no heat treatment, just turned to size, said "It'll never beak", Bo Clerke agreed, that was probably 10 or 15 years ago & it's still fine.        goodluck ...MIKE...
  
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Re: Firing Pin Alloy?
Reply #21 - Jul 4th, 2010 at 8:01pm
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My Mom could chew nails and spit. She used to tell me that a lot. Mostly when she was mad. I dont think a nail will work. To soft.
I think maybe Doc Maynard and all the others are rolling in their graves with laughter.
Or maybe they're impressed with all the high tech stuff we have now.

Happy Independence Day!!   

                    Joe.  Smiley

  

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JLouis
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Re: Firing Pin Alloy?
Reply #22 - Jul 4th, 2010 at 11:47pm
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Used a grade eight bolt with success for my Stevens,

The firing pin is a two piece design with the body turned from a grade eight bolt and the nose a piano wire insert.
  

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Re: Firing Pin Alloy?
Reply #23 - Jul 5th, 2010 at 12:53am
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It's the square notch that's the problem. Creates a stress riser at the corners leading to early failure. Make it round to match the pin, however you can ... ball endmill, file, whatever. And yeah, polishing it won't hurt either.
  
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Re: Firing Pin Alloy?
Reply #24 - Jul 5th, 2010 at 2:54am
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wesg wrote on Jul 5th, 2010 at 12:53am:
It's the square notch that's the problem. Creates a stress riser at the corners leading to early failure. Make it round to match the pin, however you can ... ball endmill, file, whatever. And yeah, polishing it won't hurt either.


  GF,,   In order for us to help you, I think we need some cad drawings. At least four close up - in focus - macro images of the failed part.  A detailed account of the actual failure when it happened.  Some home details like - are there any children in the home?  Do you watch westerns? Details man, details. We may be able to help stop these failures in the future. 

                     Joe.  Smiley
  

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Re: Firing Pin Alloy?
Reply #25 - Jul 5th, 2010 at 3:57am
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Joe wrote:
Quote:
I think maybe Doc Maynard and all the others are rolling in their graves with laughter.
   Wink   Smiley   Couldn't help myself.  

Green Frog, 
Just a curious question here:    Has anyone come up with a value on how hard (Rc) the Maynard breechs are?
  

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Green_Frog
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Re: Firing Pin Alloy?
Reply #26 - Jul 5th, 2010 at 7:39am
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[quote author=1C2C373F300E5E0 
Green Frog, 
Just a curious question here:    Has anyone come up with a value on how hard (Rc) the Maynard breechs are?
[/quote]

Not that I am aware of, but as you would expect, they seem to have started with some pretty mild steel which has been hardened somewhat.  

I had already thought of the "square corners" in the notch, wesg, and was planning on giving them enough of a radius to try and relieve some of the stress there.  The polishing that several of you emphasize is something I thought of, but not really as seriously as you seem to... I plan to fix that!

Froggie
  
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KAF
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Re: Firing Pin Alloy?
Reply #27 - Jul 5th, 2010 at 8:13am
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Maybe a cryogenic treatment would solve some problems, of breakage.
  
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John Taylor
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Re: Firing Pin Alloy?
Reply #28 - Jul 5th, 2010 at 11:24am
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A couple things added. If you use a car spring be very careful taking it out of the car, it can bite and trunk lids can be heavy. They cut easy with carbide.
I have an assortment of chainsaw files for doing the pin notch, no square corners. Most of the time I use carbide end mills for the notch if the firing pin is big enough to hold in the mill vice. Can make a much more accurate cut. The side of the end mill gives nice radius corners.
I get about one gun a month with a nail used as a firing pin.
  

John Taylor   Machinist/gunsmith
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screwloosetc
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Re: Firing Pin Alloy?
Reply #29 - Jul 5th, 2010 at 11:42am
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Thanks John
I thought so.
Tom
I think Hastaloy would make a great pin if you had the tooling to work it. Good for extreme high temperatures also
  
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