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oldphardt
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1885 Take Down Barrel collar needed
Jun 8th, 2010 at 10:14pm
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Gentlemen
   Does anyone have the take down plate for an 1885 High Wall or know someone who makes them?   I am doing a fire rescue on an 1885 vintage 1913.   The  barrel for this piece had been replaced with a 22-250 barrel and throwing out the plate before throwing the gun to the fires.   I am expecting that I will have to make the part so if anyone has drawings of the snubber screw and little parts I would appreciate it.   I have tried the usual places with little or no luck.   One guy wanted half the price of parts gun for just the stripped out plate.
  
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Old-Win
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Re: 1885 Take Down Barrel collar needed
Reply #1 - Jun 8th, 2010 at 10:39pm
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Ballard rifle in Onsted,MI has them for around $325.  I believe their source is Frank Zika.  He advertises them in the ASSRA journal.  708-354-7434
  
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fallingblock
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Re: 1885 Take Down Barrel collar needed
Reply #2 - Jun 8th, 2010 at 11:13pm
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Frank makes all of the parts and with luck may have some on hand.
Cheers,
Laurie
  

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Laurie
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oldphardt
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Re: 1885 Take Down Barrel collar needed
Reply #3 - Jun 8th, 2010 at 11:30pm
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Great, Thanks.   Next project is going to be harder - a do it yourself high wall from a casting set.   I will have to make the plate that time as the thread clocking will not be the same as original.
  
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Green_Frog
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Re: 1885 Take Down Barrel collar needed
Reply #4 - Jun 9th, 2010 at 1:01pm
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+1 to rafter3c.  I did a review on them for the Journal as soon as they came out and was totally blown away.  Not only do they fit up perfectly, look good on the gun, etc, etc, but they come with as detailed a set of instructions as I have ever seen.  Any competent machinist with a rudimentary sense of how firearms work should be able to fit a barrel to an original frame using them... they are that well written.  Smiley Smiley

As to building a take-down rifle action from a casting, I would encourage you to use the proper lug, then time the action to the lug so that your end product would be more useful if you decided to expand your horizons and make it multi-barrel as well.  JMHO.  Cool

Froggie
  
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oldphardt
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Re: 1885 Take Down Barrel collar needed
Reply #5 - Jun 9th, 2010 at 1:57pm
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Green.   These instructions on how to fit the lug, do they involve machining the receiver?   Those things require a special holding fixture to put them up on a lathe - really nasty and almost impossible to align.  What do the instructions say to modify?        As far as the making my own from the castings is concerned, I am a tinkerer type and would prefer to make everything myself for bragging rights!   Extra barrels for it would just need to be threaded to match the my collar which would match my receiver.   I am not trying to make an exact copy with interchangeable parts.   I will probably use a different firing pin design, different barrel size, perhaps the newer Browning ejector design, etc.
  
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Green_Frog
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Re: 1885 Take Down Barrel collar needed
Reply #6 - Jun 9th, 2010 at 5:12pm
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The instructions with the lug assume you are working with an unaltered original receiver, so no machining on it is needed (nor desirable!)  My point on the one you want to make was that if you DID machine it to match the original, you would gain interchangeability from the start.  This would be a moot point if you are going to do all of the work on the new rifle to your own set of specs.  Actually, I'm not sure that there is enough "meat" on the front of most castings to replicate the original receiver... it's about as much longer as the depth of the flange for the fore end.

Froggie
  
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oldphardt
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Re: 1885 Take Down Barrel collar needed
Reply #7 - Jun 10th, 2010 at 12:16am
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For me in my garage just boring and threading a casting is a big enough challenge without trying to get the threads to start in exactly the right place.  Especially true when I do not know were that right place is!   Making the plate to fit a receiver is not as hard.   Start with a 5/8 square plate then bore it, thread it, and cut that face while you are at it.   Screw this big square plate up to the front on the threaded receiver and mark where you need to cut out the final part.   Now the threads are matching for a tight fit,  That crazy little wart on the front of the '85 plate has to be made by milling off exactly 1/16 inch from the front of the plate you just made, leaving only that little protrusion.  File the wart to fit the receiver notch and it should work.
  
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John Taylor
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Re: 1885 Take Down Barrel collar needed
Reply #8 - Jun 16th, 2010 at 11:06am
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Several yeas back I made 10 frame extensions for the 95 Winchester which I have been told uses the same as the 85. I had to make all the jigs and measuring parts for one so I just went ahead and made more while I was at it. I have only one left and I only needed one at the start of the project. Getting them to time properly required a threaded stub with a timing witness mark. They were a bit of a pain to figure out but they did work. Now I'm in the process of making frame extensions for the 92/94. VTI shows them for the 92 at a very good price but they can't get them. Even if they could the thread size and timing may not be right. This has been a learning experience and I'm at the point now of making a "cam grinder" that will grind the OD to match the action. I don't want to polish them on the action for fear of taking the finish off the action. One of these is going on an original that letters from Winchester  being sold as a two barrel set, high value.
  

John Taylor   Machinist/gunsmith
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oldphardt
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Re: 1885 Take Down Barrel collar needed
Reply #9 - Jun 19th, 2010 at 1:04pm
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John, did you have the original frame extension to copy the thread timing from?   Seems like one would have to have this to be able to do the setup.   The '85 has 16 tpi and just a shade under 15/16 diameter thread.   Is that the same as the '95?
  
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Green_Frog
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Re: 1885 Take Down Barrel collar needed
Reply #10 - Jun 19th, 2010 at 5:52pm
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The barrel extension lug for the single shot is different from all the other Winchester extensions, because it is for a single shot!  You don't have to have a place for the mag tube to go through, so that's where the adjustment screw is found.  I went through all of this (to my extreme frustration) when I was starting work on my take-down high-wall years before Frank went into production.  Undecided

Froggie
  
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John Taylor
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Re: 1885 Take Down Barrel collar needed
Reply #11 - Jun 20th, 2010 at 12:58pm
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I did have an original to go by. I was making a two barrel set for the 95, one in 40-72 and the other in 405. There is only .005" difference in the bullet and the brass appears the same.
The 95 does not have a tube mag so the adjusting screw is in the place that a mag tube would be on the 86,92/94 The ones I made for the 95 was an exact copy with the same pitch on the adjusting screw and lock. The frame of a 95 takedown is about 1/4" longer than a standard frame. Thread size is 15/16" X16. Thread size on an 86 is 7/8"X20 and the 92/94 is 13/16"X20
  

John Taylor   Machinist/gunsmith
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Green_Frog
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Re: 1885 Take Down Barrel collar needed
Reply #12 - Jun 20th, 2010 at 6:21pm
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Cool!  The 95 may indeed take the same (or an adaptable) lug, then.  I got all excited about finding one for a 97 shotgun until I noticed that honkin' big hole for the magazine tube right there in the bottom where the adjusting screw should have been.  Undecided

Good luck with your multi-barrel project... that's what I want to do (long term) with the thick side high-wall take-down I am using as a schuetzen rifle right now.  Multi-barrels are way, waay cool!  Cool

Froggie
  
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