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22 High Wall extractors (Read 24291 times)

harry_eales Ex Member	Re: 22 High Wall extractors Reply #30 - Aug 6^th, 2013 at 4:01am	Print Post
	SSShooter wrote on Aug 1^st, 2013 at 11:26pm: Who is our achive-meister? Sounds like $10 well spent. Here you go, ASSRA Archivist Laurie Gapko Phone (608) 628-0536 E-mail archives@assra There isn't an address given in the list of ASSRA Officials but just Email him and ask, you will want to know where to send your money. I got several sets of plans from Rudi when he was the Archivist. All have clear details and can be enlarged to full size at your local photocopy shop. Harry


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SSShooter Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2942 Location: Southern NJ Joined: Aug 1^st, 2010	Re: 22 High Wall extractors Reply #31 - Aug 6^th, 2013 at 8:25am	Print Post
	Well, doh............ Thanks. I should have remembered that Laurie was 'the man' for this. Am thinking that the DZ Arms 2-piece extractor might be the way to go for the ultimate in accuracy. Am guessing that getting the original rimfire extractor to be perfect takes a good deal of hand-fitting.

	Glenn - Stevens 044 1/2, Bartlein SS 5R barrel in 22LR
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Bibbyman Ex Member	Re: 22 High Wall extractors Reply #32 - Aug 6^th, 2013 at 11:37am	Print Post
	FITZ wrote on Jul 13^th, 2013 at 6:22pm: Bibbyman, I am a Hiwall enthusiast. But I truly believe that the .22 Extractor that Winchester chose must have been designed by an internal enemy of the company. The Winder Musket version just made it worse because so many were built. The two piece Ballard design could not be considered a "Drop in conversion" The proper way would be to start by setting the barrel back to romove that nasty milled cut across the bootom edge of the chamber. Once that was done then you could move forward with the proper machining of a "T" slot along the axis the bore. This needs to be done very carefully in order for the extractor to move smoothly. The new extractor arm could be made out of the old extractor as it is a flat arm that sticks up into a slot in the new extractor/ejector. If I were planning on a serious match shooting career with this rifle I would probably mill out the side wall on the right hand side to facilitate loading and removal of empty's. Having to flip the rifle over and fight to remove fired shell which in some cases can get bent or stuck tring to remove them by raising the breech block will take from your concentration for match shooting efforts. You do not need extra distractions and work to affect your shooting effort. I have an A. Elliot match schuetzen that I am planning on a complete restoration and I am planning on cutting away the side wall as a result of past experince. HTH Regards, FITZ. I rejected going to the two-piece based of the comments above. As an original one piece extractor is difficult to find, I decided on a new cast extractor from John Taylor. More elbow grease but low tech and keeps the gun more or less original. It doesn't take much metal removal to get the extractor fitted. I just went slow and cautious.


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Bibbyman Ex Member	Re: 22 High Wall extractors Reply #33 - Aug 6^th, 2013 at 5:51pm	Print Post
	I did as John suggested and drilled the hole with the extractor in place in the assembled action. I only drilled to the depth of the point of the drill. I removed the extractor and finished drilling the hole out of the action. How to hold the extractor out of the action took a litte thought. I came up with building metal screws to hold it to an oak board. Worked well. The sheet metal screws have a rubber washer that grips tight and didn't leave marks. The extractor fits tight in the action and requires a little snap to get it to pivit out of the slot. A file stroke here and there may be required if it does not wear in. Next, the chamber slot and firing pin recess.


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Bibbyman Ex Member	Re: 22 High Wall extractors Reply #34 - Aug 6^th, 2013 at 7:01pm	Print Post
	I removed the firing pin with the idea to use a drill bit through the firing pin hole to spot the firing pin cut in the extractor face. I will probably chuck the drill bit in a thread tap handle and just make a clear mark. But I need to remove the hammer to get a clear shot at the firing I can't remember if the split pin drives out from the solid side to the split side or other was around.


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BP Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 8039 Location: Westside Joined: Aug 27^th, 2006	Re: 22 High Wall extractors Reply #35 - Aug 6^th, 2013 at 7:23pm	Print Post
	Bibby, Place your drift against the split end of the pin, and the split prongs should compress inward when you drift it through. The solid end is too large in dia to drift through the hole.

	There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading, the few who learn by observation, and the rest who have to pee on the electric fence and find out for themselves. Proud Noodlehead
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Bibbyman Ex Member	Re: 22 High Wall extractors Reply #36 - Aug 6^th, 2013 at 7:37pm	Print Post
	Thanks!


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Bibbyman Ex Member	Re: 22 High Wall extractors Reply #37 - Aug 7^th, 2013 at 8:14pm	Print Post
	Today I managed to get the chamber cut made. I made a mod on a steel cleaning rod to make a cutting tooth on the end. I slid it down the bore and turned it against the extractor face. I did expect it to cut metal but to score a mark on the Dykom. I also used a small drill bit through the breach block to mark the firing pin recess. I measured the width of the breach block opening and decided by 2 then used the calipers to scribe a center line on the outside face. Using a smaller than needed chainsaw file, I roughed out the chamber cut, checking often. Once close, I used a larger, almost exact right size chainsaw file to finish it up. It will chamber a cartridge now. The next challenge will be to cut the rim relief and firing pin relief.


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Bibbyman Ex Member	Re: 22 High Wall extractors Reply #38 - Aug 10^th, 2013 at 9:45am	Print Post
	I worked yesterday afternoon cutting the rim recess using a diamond rotary bit in a Dremel tool. Again, I went slow and checked often. I may still be a little tight but action closes normal and leaves no mark on case. Next step is cleanup and then harden. I'm concerned about the sloppy fit in the extractor cut. The cut has been poorly repaired by the smith that relined the bore and fixed the old extractor. All this work may be just practice if the extractor needs to make full contact with the bottom cut in the barrel.


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Bibbyman Ex Member	Re: 22 High Wall extractors Reply #39 - Aug 11^th, 2013 at 8:19pm	Print Post
	I'm thinking I may try my hand at heat treating the extractor myself. I screwed up the first one by quenching it in water. Would I need to heat the whole part to red hot or just the extractor tab? Quench in oil this time? Any mineral oil like motor oil? Guidance would be helpful.


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firearmdoc Full Member Offline Posts: 198 Joined: May 19^th, 2013	Re: 22 High Wall extractors Reply #40 - Aug 11^th, 2013 at 9:36pm	Print Post
	The first thing you want to do is determine what type of steel it is. Air, oil, water hardening, low carbon, etc. If you heat it to red and quench it in oil, chances are it will be hard. One problem, hard is good but it may be brittle as well, and you will need to temper it to make tough. Jesse


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Bibbyman Ex Member	Re: 22 High Wall extractors Reply #41 - Aug 11^th, 2013 at 10:44pm	Print Post
	firearmdoc wrote on Aug 11^th, 2013 at 9:36pm: The first thing you want to do is determine what type of steel it is. Air, oil, water hardening, low carbon, etc. If you heat it to red and quench it in oil, chances are it will be hard. One problem, hard is good but it may be brittle as well, and you will need to temper it to make tough. Jesse I don't think John Taylor said the type of steel it was cast of. He made mention of what the next run will be. Maybe the next time he's on he'll tell us.


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Bent_Ramrod Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1582 Location: Southern Arizona Joined: Feb 8^th, 2006	Re: 22 High Wall extractors Reply #42 - Aug 11^th, 2013 at 11:07pm	Print Post
	Have you fired the rifle with the new extractor yet? You might want to see how it works before you harden it. I found on a number of single shots that that "sloppy fit" was necessary in order for the extractor to function. I could fit a new extractor so that it was hard to see the lines between it and the barrel. A joy to behold. Then I fired a cartridge and all that tight fitting merely served to freeze shell and extractor in place. The extractor moves in an arc, not straight out. The inside edge actually rises a bit as it swings back, so a certain amount of "slop" is needed so it can pull the fired shell outward, instead of pushing it upward in the chamber. This "slop" doesn't need to be as much on an individual rifle as the factory specs allowed, but parts assemblers at the factory needed to get a lot of rifles together quickly. I pretty much gave up on hardening .22 extractors. They don't seem to wear out with modern ammunition, at least in my experience.


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Bibbyman Ex Member	Re: 22 High Wall extractors Reply #43 - Aug 12^th, 2013 at 2:45am	Print Post
	I'm more concerned with it bending the flimsy right side out than wearing out. Once I get it in safe and reliable shooting condition I'll probably put it back in the safe.


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John Taylor Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1851 Location: Lewiston, ID Joined: Oct 23^rd, 2006	Re: 22 High Wall extractors Reply #44 - Aug 12^th, 2013 at 2:00pm	Print Post
	I was told the metal is 8620 which should take a case hard very well. Before I got the castings I was machining them out of barrels stubs( 4140). The time it was taking I could have bought them from Ballard arms.

	John Taylor Machinist/gunsmith
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