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henpeckedmuch
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feasiblity of original high wall in 307 wcf?
Jan 13th, 2009 at 9:45pm
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I have a idea of having a rifle made for hunting but don't care for the newer High Walls and much prefer the look of the receiver on the original Winchester. My question, is will the original Highwall withstand the pressure of the 307 wcf cartridge?
  
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boats
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Re: feasiblity of original high wall in 307 wcf?
Reply #1 - Jan 14th, 2009 at 7:59am
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If was mine and looking for .30 cal would use the .30 US or Kraig cartridge.  Strong case nice rim and enough capacity to provide good ballistics.  Plus it was a factory chambering for the High Wall, I believe the first high preassure chambering for that action.

Military Krags are long throated for the 220 gr bullet but if building new you could throat for a good hunting style 30 cal bullet that suited your intended game.  The 308-307 is a good cartridge but expect you could get slightly better balistics out of the Kraig Case. Most 308's shoot best with 150 grs while you could set up a single shot for 165's and probably get 150 gr velocitys.  Heavy bullets in the 308-307 velocity suffers.

Primary thing is it's an origional chambering for the High Wall.

Boats

« Last Edit: Jan 14th, 2009 at 8:45am by boats »  
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40_Rod
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Re: feasiblity of original high wall in 307 wcf?
Reply #2 - Jan 14th, 2009 at 8:41am
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A Winchester High Wall should stand up to pretty much whatever you can chamber it for. The Winchester factory used high wall actions to pressure test loads well into the 1960s. If I were going to use it on a high pressure cartridge I would use a blued action instaed of a color cased one. Other than that I don't see a real safety issue.

40 Rod
  
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rustyrelx
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Re: feasiblity of original high wall in 307 wcf?
Reply #3 - Jan 14th, 2009 at 2:02pm
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If it were mine I would go for the .30 Krag Ackley Improved, or the .25 Ackley Krag Improved. 06 velocities in a Krag case. The .25 outstrips the 25-06 by a long shot....... Don.......... That is if I were building a hunting rifle
  
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leadball
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Re: feasiblity of original high wall in 307 wcf?
Reply #4 - Jan 14th, 2009 at 4:08pm
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I think the .307 Win is a good choice for the Hi-Wall, very few rifles will out-shoot the .307 [.308] cartridge.  leadball
  
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FITZ
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Re: feasiblity of original high wall in 307 wcf?
Reply #5 - Jan 14th, 2009 at 5:01pm
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Henpecked, I once owned one of the Hiwall International match rifles made for the 1913 matches at Camp Perry. It was in 30-06. I shot Lake City Match in it with no problems at all. It shot well enough with this Ammo so that I never did any handloading for it. Stupidly sold it as it was a "Hard Holder with a TIGHT sling" Rifle. Have come to regret that decision. I would however use one of the later Blued actions as has been suggested by someone else here. However I would like to note. Winchester Hiwall strength is a result of their Robust design, not so much material heat treat. I and many others have used Winder Musket recievers as a base to build many rifles in fairly high pressure calibers. It has been said that Winder Musket recievers had no special heat treat as they were to be .22 Rimfire caliber guns. I currently have a Takedown 30-40 Krag on a takedown Winder Musket action and have shot with some reatively stiff loads of smokeless and Jacketed bullets. The Takedown feature works fine and shows no sign of High pressure abuse. Consider the surface area of support of the Breech block. A Highwall has significantly more support than most modern Bolt Action rifles. Where you can get in trouble with a Hiwall is in the Breech Block with improper firing pin sizes for High pressure with Smokeless Powder.
Well enough of my ranting. HTH. Regards, FITZ. Smiley
  

FITZ
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henpeckedmuch
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Re: feasiblity of original high wall in 307 wcf?
Reply #6 - Jan 15th, 2009 at 8:20pm
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I thought of using the 30-40 Krag, but I'm tired of trying to find brass for all my rifles. I have a 25-20 ss and a 218 Bee that I reload for and have to constantly keep an eye open for brass. I tried to see if 30-40 brass was available only to find out that it was "seasonable" and "out of stock" everywhere I looked. while 307 brass was readably available.
  
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Mozark
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Re: feasiblity of original high wall in 307 wcf?
Reply #7 - Jan 15th, 2009 at 11:04pm
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You might consider the 303 Brit. With a bit more performance than the 30-40 it will stand toe to toe with the 307, and in a cartridge contemporaneous with the High Wall. Brass is inexpensive, and in a tight non military chamber much more long lived than it's reputation.

MM
  
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boats
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Re: feasiblity of original high wall in 307 wcf?
Reply #8 - Jan 16th, 2009 at 7:49am
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You can get 30/40 brass, In fact I have a hundred or so you can have.   Consider that a hundred cases will be a lifetime supply for a single shot hunter. 

This is my personal opinion but for what it's worth. Use a modern caliber might as well buy a Ruger # 1.  307 is easy but if the rifle was put up for resale as a 307 no doubt it would be stripped for the action, do a  nice job in origional caliber and it may well stay intact.

Boats

  
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Re: feasiblity of original high wall in 307 wcf?
Reply #9 - Jan 16th, 2009 at 9:29am
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I'm with boats on this.  Consider that .30-40 brass is abundant enough to serve as a donor/parent for a bunch of wildcats and recreations, and you will have to admit it's not that hard to find.  To be honest, I had never even considered the non-traditional .307 in the high-wall.  Undecided  The old .30 Gov't was a factory listing for the late 'walls, though.  Cool

The bottom line, though, is to get the rifle you want, and if it's a .307 high-wall you desire, so be it.  Just be aware that you will be starting with an unusual, non-standard caliber for the rifle, but as far as feasibility, that action in good shape provides a feasible platform for just about any rimmed case you can mention!  Regardless of your final caliber choice, you should end up with a fine rifle.

Regards,
Froggie
  
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henpeckedmuch
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Re: feasiblity of original high wall in 307 wcf?
Reply #10 - Jan 16th, 2009 at 10:26am
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You guys may be right and I'm re-thinking my choices. But, is the 30-40 capable of good accuracy? I've read that it is not known for it's ability to give fine accuracy. I've also read that the original rifleing was set up for very heavy bullets for caliber size, something like 200gr or 220gr. Has anyone here had an original? And, how was it in the accuracy department? The reason I ask is I'm getting ready to go to the Baltimore Gun show in March and they almost always have at least one original Highwall in 30-40 cal.
  
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rustyrelx
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Re: feasiblity of original high wall in 307 wcf?
Reply #11 - Jan 16th, 2009 at 11:56am
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Like any rifle its in how you set it up.  The 30-40 Krag rifle was banned at Camp Perry for a time as being too accurite. Then it was determined that H. Pope had rebarrel them. And the claim was it wasn't a factory military rifle. So accuracy is not a question. Set up is. If you want to shoot heavy bullets use a fast twist 1-8, if you want to shoot medium weight use a 1-10, if you want light use 1-12. Its all in what YOU want. I'd go for the 1-10 as its too easy and a good all around choice. Just remember good barrel=good accuracy. And theres a lot to be said about craftmanship. Quality will get good results.
                             Don     rustyrelx
  
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Lowaller
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Re: feasiblity of original high wall in 307 wcf?
Reply #12 - Jan 16th, 2009 at 2:38pm
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I'd vote for the 30-40 Krag as well.  While more load data may be available for the .307 Winchester (the rimmed equivalent of the .308), the 30-40 has more history in the model 1885, and can easily be loaded to equal or exceed .308 ballistics in a strong action.  (Keeping in mind the caveat above about firing pin size and hole diameter.)  Case capacity is about equal to the .308 (actually I think its about a grain more), and several loading manuals have data for "plus-p" performance in suitable actions.  Currently I have a Ruger #3 in 30-40 and find the cartridge mild to shoot and very accurate in my rifle.  While Rugers have a somewhat spotty record for ultimate accuracy, my own #3 will shoot  3-shot groups of factory 180 gr consistently into less than an inch at 100 yards (in fact, with two boxes of Remingtons shot from the bench, I have not had a 3-shot group exceed one inch.)  The 1 in 10" twist of my factory barrel will accurately shoot everything up to the original load 220 gr round nose bullets, and will equally handle the current long-for-caliber super bullets like the Barnes Triple-Shok.  In fact some of these new and extraordinarily long bullets may excel in the 30-40 because of its long case neck which can adequately hold the bullet without having it intrude significantly into the case body.

Much hunting history has been made with America's first smokeless cartridge, and all of North America's big game successfully taken.  Give it serious consideration.

Lowaller  (Bill)
  
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