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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) So Who All is Making High Walls Right Now? (Read 23364 times)
Paul_F.
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So Who All is Making High Walls Right Now?
Apr 27th, 2008 at 11:39pm
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I think I've finally settled on a "feature set" for a "semi-custom" or custom single shot rifle of my fondest dreams... and its core is a Winchester High Wall action.

So, I'm looking around at who's currently making High Wall actions, on the assumption that the action I want is not going to be available in an original at a price any cheaper than buying a brand new action, and having it fitted up. (I'll be looking, of course, just not betting on it).

So here are the ones I KNOW about...
Uberti (Well, maybe not a perfectly true copy, but an economical one if I'm going to strip it and rebuild it anyway).
C. Sharps
Ballard Rifles (Are they even shipping currently?)
Meacham Tool (Holy $*** are they expensive!)

Am I missing anyone?

My IDEAL, at least until I change my mind... is a High Wall with Double Set trigger, and what ballard calls a "Helm stye lever", and a take down action to facilitate fitting two barrels.. Pistol grip tang for a pistol grip stock.  These features on one rifle are looking to be a pretty tall order...

This would be an "all around" rifle, not purpose built for any single competitive sport, but not excluding most of them either.   

So what might be the best bet for having something like that built after I save a couple thousand more $$$? 

All opinions appreciated!
Paul F.
  
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38_Cal
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Re: So Who All is Making High Walls Right Now?
Reply #1 - Apr 27th, 2008 at 11:41pm
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If you're looking at takedown rifles, you're looking for either a rare original or a Ballard.  The receivers are different on the takedowns.

David
Montezuma, IA
  

David Kaiser
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Paul_F.
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Re: So Who All is Making High Walls Right Now?
Reply #2 - Apr 27th, 2008 at 11:47pm
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I HAD noticed that the take down was only offered by Ballard... but I have also seen a take down, er, block (drawing a blank on the actual name) advertised in the Journal, which I had thought was able to be fit up to a "standard" wall action.

Frustratingly, I don't see a double-set option on Ballards web site.

I'm willing to accept that I may not be able to reasonably have both features....
But I'm not ready to give up QUITE yet Smiley


Paul F.
  
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Re: So Who All is Making High Walls Right Now?
Reply #3 - Apr 28th, 2008 at 12:22am
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Paul,
Frank Zika makes takedown irons but they will not work on a standard action.
The take down action is a coil spring action and is not cut in at the face for the forend. 
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Laurie
  

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Laurie
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waterman
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Re: So Who All is Making High Walls Right Now?
Reply #4 - Apr 28th, 2008 at 1:06am
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Does anyone make a coil spring high wall reproduction?
  
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DonH
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Re: So Who All is Making High Walls Right Now?
Reply #5 - Apr 28th, 2008 at 5:07am
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To my knowledge, C. Sharps, Meacham.
  
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Re: So Who All is Making High Walls Right Now?
Reply #6 - Apr 28th, 2008 at 8:32am
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Paul, as you might recall, I wrote the review in the SSR Journal of Frank Zika's take-down lug.  I have had extensive talks with several of the folks involved in manufacture of the various rifles and components and have come to the following conclusions;
1)  I sure am glad I got my original receiver shell when I did nearly 20 years ago... It had no lug, and it is taking me forever to "finish" the project which keeps growing and morphing.  Send me a pm or e-mail (or come to one of our CSV shoots  Wink ) and I'll tell you the whole rambling tale!  Cool
2)  The only direct way to get a modern-made take-down action is to buy it from Ballard, and I don't know whether they will sell it that way or only as a whole rifle.  You can however get all of the parts from them, but of course that is pretty pricey as well.   Shocked
3)  There is the possibility of building your own take-down receiver from a Meacham receiver (the only one besides the Ballard I would even consider for a project of this magnitude) but the machining would be extensive, involving a shaper which few of us have or have access to and I'm not even sure it could be done, only that some comments about the profile and length of that receiver in Campbell's evaluation of it lead me in that direction.  Undecided Again, pm or e-mail for complete details.

Paul, I think you will have to keep casting about for an incomplete or complete original action (which would be increasingly hard to find due to the availability of the Zika lugs) and "upgrade it" like I did with the trigger assembly and lever and stock I wanted; or bite the bullet and buy a Ballard Rifle Co. action which, though pricey, would be just what you want; or you could be ready for some extensive machine work, which even if it can be done, will probably end up costing more than the first two options mentioned.  Roll Eyes

Regards,
Green Frog

PS  Ballard does offer all four trigger options on their rifles, so I'm guessing they will put a DST on for you, but like everything else, that increases the price.  Shocked
  
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Re: So Who All is Making High Walls Right Now?
Reply #7 - Apr 28th, 2008 at 8:43am
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I spoke to Ballard LLC right after I saw that they were offering the takedown model. They confirmed that they were indeed making a coilspring action now. In my opinion if you want to do a takedown project and don't have the action already then Ballard is the best cheapest option. Other coil spring high wall actions can be altered to accept the takedown assembly but that is after you already paid for the action. The expense would be more than if you just went to Ballard in the first place. 

40 Rod

  
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humboldt
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Re: So Who All is Making High Walls Right Now?
Reply #8 - Apr 28th, 2008 at 10:00am
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Paul, If I was going to build up a hi-wall like the one that I know that you want, I would shop around and see if I could buy an original wall that has been "converted" to a varmint rifle- solely to get the action. Then I would send it to Meacham and have him install his bottom end metal-double set triggers, pistol grip tang and the neat underlever that he uses. Of course, the action would have to be a coil spring action. You might call Steve Meacham and see if his set triggers, etc., would fit on a C. Sharps action. Then I would send said action to John King or Dave Crossno to have the barrel of your choice fitted to it. There happens to be a stockmaker who lives in your area who might be talked into stocking it and checkering it with a nice pattern! The C. Sharps actions are pretty good. Getting the barreled action from C. Sharps would work also, as they use Badger barrels. The Pine Creek Shoot at Simpson last month was won with a C. Sharps 45-70. It was for sale until he won the match and now it is off the market. Good luck! Mori
  
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Paul_F.
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Re: So Who All is Making High Walls Right Now?
Reply #9 - Apr 28th, 2008 at 11:35am
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Thanks to everyone for the replies!

I did find that article in the Journal about the Zika barrel extension, but found it too late at night to read it, I will brush up on it after work.

Thanks to all for fixing that misconception I had about 'em Smiley

I will be keeping my eyes open for an original action suitable to rebuild.. but I never seem to have money (or visa space) when they come up...   

Oh, and Mori; that local stockmaker is who I'd planned to ask (beg) first... first I need to acquire a variety of shiny objects he may be interested in (plus money) to entice him Wink

This is probably going to be quite a long term project given my finances... but, never started, never finished!

I'm liking the idea of a C. Sharps action, with Meachem triggers/lever... 
That and a Ballard take-down with double triggers as an action are on my "call" list.

Regarding the Uberti; 
I see little difference in "rebuilding" a buggered original, vs rebuilding (up to and including re-machining some parts) the Uberti.  Like with some Chinese tools, if treated as a "casting kit", they can be made useable.  The couple Uberti's I've seen locally have actually been surprisingly nice, and well fit (at least those parts visible without taking it apart).
They're damn sure no Meacham, but they're also $5000 cheaper than a Meacham, and a guy can do a lot of remachinging, rebarreling, restocking, re-color case, etc for $5000....
Still, NOT the top of my list... but not OFF the list either.

Lots to think about..
(good to know I didn't miss any makers that might make exactly what I'm looking for... sorta..)
Paul F.

  
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Re: So Who All is Making High Walls Right Now?
Reply #10 - Apr 28th, 2008 at 11:37am
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Mori, your response misses one key component of Paul's "dream rifle."  He wants it to be a take-down model.  Other than that, his options would, as you describe, be much more varied.  Huh  I agree that if he can find a doggy varmint rifle to resurrect he will be $$$ ahead... that's where my take-down action came from, but it had a barrel screwed directly into the frame as though it were a standard solid frame.  The "stock" that was on it would have made mediocre firewood.  What a waste of a good action.  Better it be in my gun case rebuilt as a schuetzen rifle! Shocked

Regards,
Charlie the Frog
  
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Re: So Who All is Making High Walls Right Now?
Reply #11 - Apr 28th, 2008 at 8:14pm
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Paul, second try. Here is the answer to your Dream.

1) Start looking for and buy a Winder Musket Takedown Hiwall Rifle complete. Hopefully one with a rotten bore.

2) This action now is the core of your Schuetzen. Contact Ballard and arrange to have them fit it up with their Wide spaced Double Set Trigger pistol grip lower Tang. Be carefull here as there are variations in Pistol grip shape from early to late Schuetzens and Deluxe sporting models. Also the Lever of your choice.

3) Arrange with competent quality Gunsmith to have the Rifle built up the way you want. Ballard is also capable of doing this work. I have seen some really nice example's of Ballard Hiwalls and they were nice.
But have not seen a full Schuetzen from them as of yet.

By the way the Hiwalls from the Coil Spring and Takedown era were by Winchester standard all Blued actions as that had become their standard of manufacture for the Model 1885. I have been collecting and accumilating Hiwalls for 46 years and have not seen to date a factory color cased coil spring or takedown reciever. 

Now I expect to see all kinds of howling here about the strength of the Winder actions for centerfire calibers. But the truth is the model 1885 got it's robust strength from design not heat treat of the material. Not to say proper heat treat does not help. But if you look around you will find plenty of Winder Musket Actions that have been rebarreled in what can only be described as modern high pressure woodchuck calibers. I presently have a "Built of Parts" takedown Hiwall that was a  winder musket action with a 30-40 Krag Takedown Barrel I assembled it with. I shoot it with fairly stiff loads of smokeless and Jacketed bullets. It  has an original Winchester #3 Nickle Steel barrel and swallows 37 Gr 3031 and 180 Sierra jacketed bullets with ease. 

This dream Schuetzen is gonna cost you somewhere in the price range of $4,000.00 or more depending on the Grade of Wood, Checkering, Sights and stuff etc.
Other than wanting it to be Takedown you can just plain order it from Ballard or Meacham. I have a Meacham Hiwall in 40-70 SS and it is a well built rifle with only a few Minor changes from the original Winchester design that I feel ARE beneficial. Ballard arms I believe has stayed true to the complete original design. There just is not any way around this price figure today for a Hiwall Schuetzen. HTH, Regards FITZ Smiley
  

FITZ
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marlinguy
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Re: So Who All is Making High Walls Right Now?
Reply #12 - Apr 28th, 2008 at 8:35pm
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Every time I dream of that perfect singleshot, somebody reminds me about money and there goes my dream! Lips Sealed Wink
  
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Re: So Who All is Making High Walls Right Now?
Reply #13 - Apr 28th, 2008 at 9:00pm
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That's why they call them dreams, Vall!  Wink

I was fortunate enough to acquire the take-down action I have been building on nearly 20 years ago in a trade when it was an ugly sporter.  I got one of Ben Rice's last sets of DSTs before his passing, a Walker style lever (from a Shelton casting) and the necessary barrel extension lug from a dealer.  In the intervening years it has been restocked 3 times and rebarreled twice and is now heading toward being my interpretation of a Laudensack Schuetzen model.  It has both barrels available now that Frank Zika is making the barrel lugs and should have a third installed soon.  If I had to replace it all at once, the dream would be a nightmare!!  Shocked

I bet you have some Ballard stories that are almost as involved though, don't you Vall?

That's my story and I'm sticking to it!  Cool

Froggie

PS  BTW, I would wholeheartedly agree with FITZ on the most likely donor action, if indeed one can be found in a reasonable time.  OR you could just send a blank check to Ballard, and they could build exactly what you want in about 6-10 weeks!  Cheesy
  
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Paul_F.
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Re: So Who All is Making High Walls Right Now?
Reply #14 - Apr 29th, 2008 at 12:43am
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Fitz;

Thank you for taking the time to type all that! (Twice?).

Some good things to think about there.

I guess one thing I'm hoping is not necessarily to spend "less money" than that $4k figure, but figure out how to spend it in manageable pieces.
No way can I cough up a check for $4k, or put that on my Visa all at once...
But, If I can get Ballard/Meacham/? to give me an action now for $1.5K, then add the barrel, stock, engraving (hey, while I'm dreaming...), and the invariable "etc"... LATER in manageable bites... I might be able to come out with something.

I have little doubt that Meacham could send me what I want... but I can't cough up the coin all at once.

I have an email in to Ballard, but since my ISP has my email all goobered up for an "upgrade" right now, I'll hold off on anything else.

I'll keep my eyes open for that "rebuild-able original high wall" out there... but typically when I see those, they're overpriced for me, or I just flat don't have the money at the time.  Such is life!

Paul F.
  
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