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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) So Who All is Making High Walls Right Now? (Read 23361 times)
Lowaller
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Re: So Who All is Making High Walls Right Now?
Reply #45 - May 2nd, 2008 at 12:45pm
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Some additional thoughts on the demise of "take-downs".   

The complexity, and therefore cost, of quality take-down actions is probably the single most likely factor in their disappearance from the market.  When manufacturers moved from hand fitting of machined pieces to stamping out or casting many pieces, including the use of plastics, to save five more cents in the cost of making a firearm, the "bean counters" won and the consumers lost.  Its all about market share and production costs and (unfortunately) consumers who want the cheapest possible product.

As for accuracy issues with take-down systems (and two-piece stocks), I seem to recall pictures of numerous take-down schuetzen and target model 1885's in Campbell's books that were factory-made and campaigned by some of the finest target shooters of the era.  More current examples of such systems and their accuracy potentials are seen in the Martini International series of single-shot target .22's.  I think the Mark III, IV, and V all have removable barrels (with a relatively simple cross-bolt system for barrel retention).  The Ruger 10-22 semi-auto's have a simple slip-fit and clamp barrel retention and the accuracy of some of the custom-tuned 10-22's (or their clones) is eyepopping.  The AR-15 clones that are now being tuned for target and varmint work can also be spectacularly accurate and still have removable and interchangeable barrels and two-piece stocks.

If you want a take-down 1885, unfortunately your choices are limited.  I would definitely go for the dream and take all of the discussion about accuracy potential with a grain of salt.  It sounds like your building a shooting rifle and not a 25-pound rail gun.
  
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thop
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Re: So Who All is Making High Walls Right Now?
Reply #46 - May 2nd, 2008 at 1:47pm
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The reasons a rifle is made in a "take down" configuration should also be analyzed.  MARLINGUY and BERT H bring up interesting points when they indicate that take down rifles were made late into the 20th century, and are still being made in custom circles, but are the reasons still the same as when the take down rifles were being made at the turn of the 20th century?  I have a 66 Mauser bolt gun I bought in Berlin in '77 that is a great rifle and it is a take down configuration.  The take down feature was not to accommodate transportation (the rifle is not that much shorter when broken down), which I think arguably was the primary reason for the "production" take down rifles like the '85 and Stevens Favorites, but to facilitate swapping barrels to different calibers on the same action and stock.  I can report that the "swap barrel" (.25-06) configuration in no way inhibited this rifle from achieving minute of angle accuracies when the barrel was removed (with scope attached) and replaced. My only regret is that I only purchased one barrel when I bought it.  I think it would be difficult to find any common ground for the potential accuracy between a take down configuration of the 66 Mauser and an '85 Winchester because of the difference in the breach design.    Granted, there were plenty of match rifles that were ordered with multiple barrels for the primary reason of swapping barrels to different calibers/cartridges, but the reduced demand for run of the mill take down production rifles was IMO the direct result of shooters life style changes (transportation) and economic conditions (manufacturing labor costs),  as J.D.Steele  eluded to.  I think we have wandered way off the track of the original question posed by PAUL F. but it has been an interesting and stimulating subject for exchange.  Thanks.  Terry
  

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Green_Frog
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Re: So Who All is Making High Walls Right Now?
Reply #47 - May 2nd, 2008 at 4:56pm
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I have avoided getting into the solid frame vs takedown frame accuracy question because I am a little bit prejudiced in favor of the take-down frame regardless of ultimate accuracy.  All of the respondents who mention takedown rifles of the 19-teens are talking about OFFHAND rifles, and for the level of accuracy that game was requiring as opposed to benchrest and another order of magnitude of required accuracy.  Cool

As a couple of previous posters noted, if you want a dedicated bench gun, a two piece stock is a detriment, much less a "two piece gun!"  Roll Eyes  I love my 'walls, but when I am shooting from the bench, my Peregrine is going to be on the bags.  Wink

My attitude (and belief) is, a well set up take-down high-wall, CPA or Maynard will hold its own in offhand competition, and probably in BPCS as well, but for all out, money on the table bench rest, I'll get out the heaviest solid frame rifle I've got in the safe.  That's my story and I'm sticking to it!  Cool

Froggie
  
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MartiniBelgian
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Re: So Who All is Making High Walls Right Now?
Reply #48 - May 2nd, 2008 at 4:59pm
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I would not consider the BSA Int'ls takedown - not more than a conventional threaded barrel - after all, you can take down that one  also....  I have a Greener GP BPCR in 45-70, and it is a very accurate rifle, but - it does change zero when removing and reinstalling the barrel, and I don't have another barrel for it (maybe soon....).  I have come full circle on these, and now prefer fixed-barrel rifles.  Just too many (additional) variables with takedown systems, dedicated rifles are more consistent.  That Greener GP is treated as a fixed-barrel rifle, with the barrel threads loctited.  Also, it is an additional mechanical system, and wear has to be considered after time - which will be a another variable.  Accuracy is a pursuit where you try and reduce variables as much as possible, one of the elements which probably caused their demise for accuracy work - together with the higher manufacturing cost.
  
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