The 2520 Win is a shorter cartridge designed to function in the Model 92 Winchester lever action rifles and a few others. I think Marlin also made rifles in that caliber. The 25-20 SS is a longer shell from the Black powder era. It kind of looks like a grown up Hornet. The two are different. The 25-20 SS is I believe a better cartridge for Target shooting up to 200 yds and can be shot with smokeless powder. Now having said it came from the black Powder era I must admit I have not known anyone to use Black powder in a 25-20 SS. I suspect that fowling is a real issue. HTH regards, FITZ.

  As Fitz says the .25/20 Win. was especially developed to be used in the Win. 1892 because the SS was to long for the action. Water capacity of the two is slightly different with the .25/20 Win. having a capacity of 27 grs. of water and the .25/20SS having a 30 gr. capacity. The .25/20 Win. case is 1.33" long and the .25/20SS 1.635".

I've shot the .25/20SS quite a bit with BP. In fact with the exception of one load worked up for 4227 that's all I've ever shot in it in either a re-lined Low Wall or an original Stevens 44 1/2. Both have been shot fixed and breech seated.

  I have gotten groups, at 100 yds., below 1", but the norm is closer to 1 1/4" if breech seated and wiped out between shots. Best BP loads run about equal to the smokeless load. I've used it Squirrel hunting a few times with reduced loads of BP and out to 50 yds., without wiping between shots, it has enuf accuracy for head shots.

Merwin,

  For the original twist in the Steven 44 1/2 about the most wgt. you can get away with reliably out to 200 yds. is 75 grs. I think Brent will back me up on this.  A very few guns, for some reason, will handle up to 80 or 85 grs., but that will more than likely restrict the maximum accurate range you can work with and get acceptable accuracy. The thing to do is see if your gun will handle that Lyman bullet of yours and what the maximum range you can get accuracy that's acceptable for what you want to use it for. In any event I'd look for a 75 gr. mould.

  I use an old NEI PB bullet which is marked 60  257 (actually weighs about 70 grs. cast 1-25), which I don't see listed in the newest NEI catalog I have. As mentioned in a previous post I haven't done a lot of smokeless powder load development with this round but 8.0 grs. of 4227 and a Rem. SR primer do what I want from it. 

  This light bullet wgt. for the original twist is the reason most .25SS shooters today opt out for a 1-10" or 12" twist for target work. The 10" twist is what I have on my Low Wall and it will handle bullets up to possibly 120 grs., altho the bullet I use is 110 grs.

  The case capacity of the SS is really crowding the limit for fixed ammo BP use and a 110 gr. bullet. With smokeless you have to be careful as it's pretty easy to stretch primer pockets. That's experience talking!

How would the 25-20ss do for called coyotes (inside 100 yards?  Also, my rifle came with the Ideal loading tool with bullet mold.  Is there a way to know what weight bullet it will throw, other than casting one and weighing it?

Wings,

I think a good flat-nosed bullet cast 1-25 will do the job nicely on those Coyotes at the range you're thinking about.

  According to Lyman Handbook #27 the bullet wgt. cast from the Ideal #4 tool should be 86 grs.

MerwinBray, we need to talk about some bullet casting for these .25s.  Hint: can you say "Perfection Mould?"

Froggie

Froggie,
Perhaps we could get together at my house on a shoot weekend when you are up this way? I forgot about THAT mould. Are you going to try to make Timonium? I plan on going and am always looking for moulds while I am there, amongst other things. 
I have both Ideal 25-20ss and 25-20 wcf tools with decent moulds. They visually apear the same. I have cast from both but at different times and didn't compare them. I want to. I also want to run some of the .22 wcf bullets from another ideal tool I have. I can then size some for my .22 hornet and try some as is for my stevens tip up in .22 wcf. That gun has a dark bore, but I want to shoot it. I am looking to use it on the June squirel season we have here.
Merwin

PS... the cowboy bullet is a nice flatnose..

PPS.. dave mos made 'A' bullet mold that shot 250 10x.. mea culpa

tt.g

The early wall barrels are marked '25 W.C.F.' (note not 25-20!) and use only the long skinny 25-20 SS chamber. The two I have measured have had ~13" twists. Later, after the advent of the 1892 Winchester and its new shorter 25-20 cartridge, the walls used both chamberings and marked them with two new cartridge names. The old long skinny 25 W.C.F. chambering became known as the '25-20 S.S.' and the new shorter chambering was known as the '25-20 W.C.F'.

So remember, if the caliber mark does not have a '-20' after the '.25' then it is an early barrel in the early 25-20 S.S. chambering.
HTH, Joe

Tenx,
Thank you for this info.I will need to have someone who knows more about Winchesters look at it, maybe the Frog can take another look for me, we were pretty busy "telling lies" last time! WInchesters are knid of "new" to me. Perhaps the reason all I can make out on the bottom is "wcf" is because it was set back? The top stampings that say 25-20ss are very block form lettering. It is not the prettiest barrel externally, but serviceable. I found it in a bucket of barrels on the porch of a shop that was closing. The bucket said $5.00, your choice. I dug through and knew enough to realize what it was. More gun projects have started for me because of finding one part. Usually it's the action, but not always.
Merwin

tenx,
I should mention that this barrel is long and round, not heavey weight. It does have dovetails. What am I looking for as the give away? I have two other wall barrels, those two are large shank. ( I went through a barrel phase when for some unexplained reason I would buy barrels I didn't really need. They have come in ahndy on a couple of trades I guess ) One of they, too, have been monkied on. One is a heavey oct. 32-20 cut to 24" and the other is a 45-70 round barrel with a real nice bore but some real bad external gouges. 
Do the small and lareg shank barrels have the same tell tale markings? 
Aw crud, I can see where this is going. Anyone recommend a good hi/low wall book? I think I'm gonna need one.
Merwin

I have a Hepburn barrel marked 25-20 I expect is single shot .This has 13 inch twist . I should sell it.

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Very good! I have found that not many Winchester Model 1885 collectors are aware of that fact. In light of that, I wrote the following several years ago;

"All of the early Winchester Single Shot rifles that were marked “25 W.C.F.” are in fact actually chambered for the 25-20 Single Shot (S.S.) cartridge.   

The 25-20 S.S. cartridge first appeared circa 1882, and it was the first known center fire 25-caliber wildcat.   Winchester adopted the 25-20 S.S. cartridge in mid 1890 (circa serial number 39900), and because it was not a proprietary cartridge, they applied their own “W.C.F.” label to it.  

The 25-20 S.S. was chambered in both the high-wall and low-wall rifle frames, but it is much more predominantly found in the low-wall. The standard barrel length was always 28-inches regardless which frame size was used.  

It is my personal belief that most if not all of the “25 W.C.F.” marked Model 1885 Single Shots rifles made prior to 1894, are in reality chambered for the 25-20 S.S. cartridge versus the 25-20 W.C.F. (repeater).  On the later made specimens (after 1893), the caliber markings “25 W.C.F.”, “25-20 W.C.F.”, and “25-20 S.S.” will all be encountered.  The “25 W.C.F.” stamp was phased out in the latter part of the year 1895, with serial number 72139 being the highest serial number I have confirmed thus far."

As for the twist rate, Winchester cataloged the "25 W.C.F." (a.k.a. 25-20 S.S.) as having a 1:12. The 25-20 W.C.F. is listed as having a 1:14 twist rate (in the Model 1885). Are you sure that your rifles have a 1:13 twist?

Bert

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Hello Joe,

The information I have about the 25-20 S.S. comes from personal observation, and from digging out as many details and facts as I could find from the original Winchester records. Your observations are very very close to the "facts" as I have been able to verify them. 

I also have a very good friend (and fellow Model 1885 collector) who is an absolute 25-20 S.S. fanatic (he owns about (20) rifles in 25-20 S.S., and he has helped me to compile a fair amount of the information about them. I will verify exactly when the "first" Winchester Model 1885 was made in 25 W.C.F. during my next trip to Cody.

If anyone who reads this topic owns a Winchester Model 1885 in 25-20 S.S., I would very much like to hear from you. I can be contacted at Win1885@msn.com

Bert