Hmm... My opinion is exactly the opposite - top .22 ammo has never been more accurate (or expensive  ).  If you look at the top ELey and Lapua stuff, I find it hard to find fault.
If you want to do better, I guess a bullet runout gage is the thing you need (type Nielsen or whatever), but pulling bullets and reloading?  I really doubt you could do better.

goodmorning matt,
i will be happy to l;oan you my 22 mold that eldon made and have at it.
a number of us and i am trying to remember names found that you were completly at the mercy of the primimg compounds. gave up and went back to buying it. there was a gent who shot at tssra lives up north had a lot of results, can't think of his name. oh well i will remember. I think i even still have a breech seater i made... will have to loook.
cheers
irish

About a year ago, I suggested to Eley that, to capitalise on the growing interest in .22 benchrest, they might sell primed cases and a bullet seating kit.
The response was: "it's an idea".
Pressure is required from the market place, ie: you out there.
Fred.

Quote:



It's probably going to be more like $18/box retail. It should be remembered about the "lot #" comment, the distributers shelves are full of unpurchased Lapua that was supposed to be many things... we'll see.
  Fred, what do you suspect might be gained from hand assembly of these components? This presupposes we could come up with suitable powder which will be quite hard as it's never been available for public sale. [ the best available is Vitovori and they only sell to the Ammo companies].

Hi All !!!

Having worked for Olin for a number of years, it was always a hoot to visit our East Alton, IL ammunition facility where Jerry (plant manager) would always boast of his annual production levels of .22 cal ammo as being in the multi-millions…. This was in the eighty’s when Winchester was king and the executive lobby was lined with cabinets full of first serial numbered models…. (sigh)…

Anyway, we often discussed opportunities of improvement for sales/marketing and this topic often came up as to providing “primed” cases for the special market folks (who wanted to reload with their own unique components). This was always discarded based on the advice or our legal department as it was considered “high liability” for any amount predicted.  

Remember that the .22 primer is an impact sensitive slurry that when dried, provides ignition to the primary powder. No meager feat in production mode.

If you’re looking to select your ammo for consistency, measure the rim thickness and sort them within the bell-curve that provides the best results. Another science project that would require a machined rest and a tunnel conducive to environmental consistency.. 

Oh for the good old day’s when a box of the best was fifty cents.  

Ed…..

And I managed to pick up a couple of handfuls of primed Federal .22 Short brass about 25 years ago.  Wish it had been long rifle, but...

David
Montezuma, IA

Redwing, as it applies to high grade match ammo, which I'm assuming all this talk of improvement ultimately leads, the days of rim varience are long over. I have'nt heard of a bench shooter doing it for probably 5-7 years. The only guys that persist are still trying to convince themselves that mid priced stuff can consistantly compete with the good stuff. Another illusion at anything above the club level.
 I would say the bottom line is that in the last couple years .22 match ammo has been made that approaches perfection. My recently departed friend Chet Amick from MD. smithed and shot 5 different guns that last year shot 5 250-25x's on the IR 50 target, all in the presence of some of the US's most accomplished BR shooters and guys I don't care what kind of gun you own, that ain't gonna happen with anything but @#$% fine ammo IMHO.

Ed, well the first post spoke of quality control of all ammo. Since it rapidly evolved into reloading potential I kind of assumed that nobody was going to go through that to outperform CCI stingers.
  On your other point while .22 BR match shooting is often zero tolerance stuff I doubt many do or will pay that kind of scratch for ammo. Last year I shot nothing but black box at nine bucks+ a box and shot 23 250's in compition. Eley sent some of this $6 club over and it shot exceedingly well. While I would not call it cheap, it's still a far cry from $25.

Wow, I'm really surprised to here about your test stuff because it's been generally accepted that the stuff that's been out the last couple years in particular vastly exceeds any of the old stuff, in particular the '07 lots off the 3 machine and the new 5 machine with black box in particular. The crimp is generally better, they changed the drive band on the EPS stuff a while back allowing for better fouling removal and shot to shot consistancy and then moved it forward slightly in an attempt to address a stability issue with more folks using extremely tight bore, 2-groove, slow twist bbls.
     The next chance you get to test some stuff you might want to try lots off the 3 and 5 machine, go with some speeds from  a range of 1053 to about 1065fps. Lots of that mid 50's stuff has been good. Good luck.

I will agree with Tim, I don't know the machines that my lots come from but the stuff I have in the 1064 fp and 1062 fps range is just plain excellent.  Really excellent.   

Brent

just because i hate it when some starts quoting rules   
matt any time you want to shoot 22 rf breech seating at my placecome on down and to heck witht he rules.
i started trying this about 7 years ago and quit. but i still have the mold and the seater for my ballard.
cheers
irish

rimfire;
           I have experimented with breechseating 22RF --trying to make cheap ammo shoot better, "does it work" you bet it does, but its a lot of trouble fooling with those small cases and as you state why go to all the trouble because no shooting venue I know will allow re-loaded 22RF ammo.   Breechseating 22RF works but is it worth the effort "no".    leadball

Guys,
Can you tell me what page in the rule book it tells about not being able to reload 22 RF's, I cant find anything about it.   Thanks
  Shooter

I guess what your saying is the "new" rule book I just got is the old rule book that is no longer used.  ?.

Guess I'll back off  on  the gun I had planed on having  J & C  gunsmiths make up. Or is the only change in the "new" rule book about ammo.
  Shooter

leadball,
could not have put it better. 
after a talk with matt he has got me thinking about trying to shoot breech seating 22 lead in a khornet. (lowwall)
but I think i am going to restart the rimfire venture again just for lack of nothing else better to chew on.
irish.

Shooter, 

were you building a .22 rimfire specifically for breechseating ?  

I'd like to know when the new rulebook will be available. Will it be a book or will it be posted on the forum?   


                                                                   Joe.

Shooter_1, I don't know who told you that a Ruger #1 converted to .22 RF "might not be legal" for ASSRA competitions, but they were probably some of those people who should indeed be quiet until they knew what they were talking about.  I know of at least 2 such conversions that have been prepared specifically for ASSRA competition, and other than some of the traditional matches for specific rifles, calibers, or configurations, they are welcome.  Any .22 single shot (non-bolt action, of course) with a barrel of sufficient length (currently 21" or so IIRC) is legal for the rimfire matches which are held on their own weekends several times a year, and for the .22 events at the Nationals held 3 times a year (which are otherwise mostly shot with CF rifles.)

As far as building a competition rifle on a #1 action for CF matches (bench or OH) that is done all the time, and in fact I campaigned a #1 with a custom .32-40 barrel for several years as my OH rifle.   

If you read and follow the rules in the current book or as posted, you will most probably be fine as it seems most of the changes are to liberalize the rules where they are too draconian, not make them tighter.  The thing about breech seating .22s and the safety hazards, real or perceived, that the practice might involve, explains why that particular rule seems to be getting a bit more restrictive.

I hope this will help with your decision making to some degree, and that all of the complaining by people who, by and large, aren't competing at Etna Green anyway, won't sour you on getting started.  Hope to see you there in May, and if you are close enough to make the trip to Central VA the end of June, we'd love to have you at our Chinquapin match where I assure you, both of the #1s will fit right in!

Regards,
Charlie Shaeff
the Green Frog

Shooter_1,

  Welcome to the ASSRA!

  I'll agree with Keith in that if you have something to say, why go ahead and say it. We have a lot of people on here who are not even members and it's never shut them up if they had something to say. As a member I would say you have more right to say anything you want..... within reason of course...... than they do.

  As for the CF rifle you're contemplating, like the Frog I campaigned a Ruger, altho it was a #3, with a Bud Welsh .32/40 barrel on it many years ago and no one complained then.

  The only thing I had against the Ruger action at that time was no one knew the little tricks that they know now on to get them to shoot decently. Sold it to get rid of it and now wish I had it back. Got a #1 in .218 Bee I want to try out this year (maybe) and see what that can do.

Thanks KAF for clearing this up.
Hear that guys,  NO  NEW  RULES have been adopted, now where do people get theses ideas about what's allowed and what's not allowed ?.
Shooter

Just as a side note: Two years ago I was buying new ammo from a well established competition retailer since my supply of 20+ year old Black box was running out. The comment I got from him was that I would be disapointed in the current quality of the top level ammunition especially at the cost. And, his business is selling the stuff. 

I eventually bought the lesser Wolf Target for our 200 yard work and cannot give a valid report yet and also a case of the new Eley "Sport". I think it was named "sport" as short for "sporting chance for the other guy" since in the rifles it is simply horrid (however, in pistols it works far better than the price point.). I have put it through (3)52Cs, Kimber sil, Anschutz 64s, Valmet, and my custom (200 yd match winning) singleshot and the "Sport" is not good for 1.5" groups at 50 yards.

It has also been established that the modern ammo available today is quite a bit better than the ammo of yesteryear as well.   

I do not clean every time I shoot but about once per 500 rounds has worked for me.  I might go more often when shooting bench..

Brent

Bill Calfee, who many might not know, is one of the best .22 smiths around. He actually suggests cleaning every couple hundered rounds more or less.

Tom, I'd suggest perhaps you contact Bob Collins. He supplies lots of the BR community as well as lots of team USA junior position folks and seems always to be in direct contact with ELEY in the UK. You definately want to ask him about the newer orange box stuff which is priced a lot lower[$6] than some of the high grade stuff but has shot as well in several matches. He will send out whatever test lots you require. 478-472-7176. He's a great guy to deal with.