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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Definetions?? (Read 6083 times)
kinglooie
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Definetions??
Jan 31st, 2008 at 3:18pm
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What are solid definetions for theses words:

Vintage;

Classic;

Antique;

Old;

10yrs?,20yrs?ect.  Just a conversion that aroused our curiosity??
  
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Paul_F.
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Re: Definetions??
Reply #1 - Jan 31st, 2008 at 3:30pm
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The legal definition of "antique" for firearms is "manufactured in 1898 or prior".
The common definition of "antique" anything-else is "100 or more years old".

The other terms are nebulous, with no fixed definition that I am aware of...

Paul F.
  
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kinglooie
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Re: Definetions??
Reply #2 - Jan 31st, 2008 at 9:15pm
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Okay hteres one!!

Antique; 100 yrs old.

how about the rest?? come on guys don't be afraid......

kinglooie

join us on the darkside!!!
  
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Paul_F.
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Re: Definetions??
Reply #3 - Jan 31st, 2008 at 9:49pm
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Minor correction;

Antique= 100 years old +   Correct.

Antique FIREARM = 110 years old + !

I only mention this a second time because ATFE does NOT like folks to just shrug and say "close enough"...  It gets 'em all worked up.


I (idly) wonder what the chances are that in another 10 years or so, we could talk Congress into amending GCA '68 to read "firearms 100 years old are Antiques"...
Nah...  Probably never happen...  Angry

Paul F.
  
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Green_Frog
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Re: Definetions??
Reply #4 - Jan 31st, 2008 at 10:09pm
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Notice that when the GCA was written, 1898 was only 70 years old!  I wonder if it had to do with making the likes of a 98 Mauser "modern" and all that other stuff that was older "antique?"  The date has not been changed for 40 years now, so I'm afraid we are probably stuck with it.  Undecided

As to terms like "vintage" and "classic," they are just out there to be abused regularly and with impunity.  IIRC, the term vintage originally had to do with bottling date of wine, and classic means something that has class, ie is inherently well made to an elegant design.   

Oh yeah, "old" is anybody born before me!  Grin Grin Grin

Froggie

PS  Another commonly misused descriptor is "mint," which unless you are talking about a coin or the flavor of a piece of candy, is pretty worthless.   Tongue GF
  
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leadball
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Re: Definetions??
Reply #5 - Feb 1st, 2008 at 8:29am
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Frog;
         Another worthless term is "Tradional Rifle"--my term is different than your's and if we ask five shooters we'll get six different answer's----leadball
  
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digitall423
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Re: Definetions??
Reply #6 - Feb 1st, 2008 at 8:38am
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Just this morning I received an email with photos about a "classic" WW II "vintage" battle tank that was recovered from a lake after 60 someodd years that was described to be in "mint" conditon. Food for thought.

Bill
  
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kinglooie
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Re: Definetions??
Reply #7 - Feb 1st, 2008 at 10:02am
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Hey now don't sugar coat it!  Tell it like it is......or was.....whatever!!!

I know its of the topic of the board but I'd love to see the photos of the tank!!

kinglooie

circle of life???wtf??I've been running in circles all of my life!!! is myine over or.....am I a cat??
  
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Fred Boulton
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Re: Definetions??
Reply #8 - Feb 1st, 2008 at 12:03pm
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Its good to see that the USA is as confused as we are. In the UK, there is no legal definition of antique. In Historical Shooting , the normal definitions and cut-off dates are:
Muzzle loaders- no date, but most competitions are for "Spirit of the Original" types. This would not include, for example, Rugers and such like for which there are separate comps.
Vintage: black powder cartridge designed before the introduction of smokeless---usually interpreted as pre-1900. Note that it is always design date that matters, not manufacturing date.
Classic: Pre 1919 (end WW!). Vintage arms loaded with smokeless may be shot in Classic comps.
Veteran: Cutoff date 1946 (end WW2).

Anything that you actually shoot needs to be licensed.
For antiques / curios, there is a cut off date which is 1939. Any muzzle loader made (now it is manufacturing date!) before 1939 may be held without a license.
If it uses a cartridge, the same cut off date applies providing the calibre is on a list published by the Government.
There are hundreds of calibres on the this list, including some surprising ones like .32-40. All Rook Rifle calibres are on the list.

Just thought you would like to know: when you introduce definitions, life gets more complicated, not simpler.
Fred.
  
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Cat_Whisperer
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Re: Definetions??
Reply #9 - Feb 2nd, 2008 at 8:26pm
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Here are a few definitions (GUN SHOW variety):

My apologies, but there is a thread of truth in many of them.

GLOSSARY

The following terms apply to items offered for sale:

MINT CONDITION: In original condition as manufactured, unfired, and preferably in the original box with all manufacturer's tags, labels, and paperwork.

NEAR-MINT CONDITION: Has had no more than 5,000 rounds fired through it and it still retains at least 60% of the original finish. Surface pitting is no more than 1/8" deep, and both grip panels are in place. If it is a .22, some of the rifling is still visible.

VERY GOOD: Non-functional when you buy it, but you can probably get it to work if you replace 100% of the parts.

FAIR: Rusted into a solid mass with a shape vaguely reminscent of a firearm.

TIGHT: In revolvers, the cylinder swings out, but you need two hands to close it again. For autoloaders, you must bang the front of the slide on a table to push it back.

REALLY TIGHT: In revolvers you cannot open the cylinder without a lever. Once it's open the extractor rod gets stuck halfway through its travel. On autoloaders, you need a hammer to close the slide.

A LITTLE LOOSE: In revolvers, the cylinder falls out and the chambers are 1/4" out of line when locked up. There is no more than 1/2" of end play. For autoloaders, the barrel falls out when the slide is retracted. If the barrel stays in place, the slide falls off.

GOOD BORE: You can tell it was once rifled and even approximately how many grooves there were.

FAIR BORE: Probably would be similar to GOOD BORE, if you could see through it.

NEEDS A LITTLE WORK: May function sometimes if you have a gunsmith replace minor parts, such as the bolt, cylinder, or barrel.

ARSENAL RECONDITIONED: I cleaned it up with a wire wheel and some stuff I bought at K-Mart.

ANTIQUE: I found it in a barn, and I think it dates from before 1960. Note that ANTIQUE guns are usually found in FAIR condition.

RARE VARIANT: No more than 500,000 of this model were ever made, not counting the ones produced before serial numbers were required. Invariably, RARE VARIANTS command a premium price of 150% of BOOK VALUE.

BOOK VALUE: An ill-defined number that dealers consider insultingly low and buyers ridiculously high. Since no one pays any attention to it, it doesn't matter who is right.

IT BELONGED TO MY GRANDFATHER: I bought it at a flea market or yard sale two weeks ago.

CIVIL WAR RELIC: The vendor's great-grandfather knew a man whose friend once said he had been in the Civil War.

SHOOTS REAL GOOD: For rifles, this means at 100 yards it will put every shot into a 14" circle if there isn't any wind and you're using a machine rest. For handguns, three out of six rounds will impact a silhouette target at seven yards. In shotguns, it means that the full choke tube throws 60% patterns with holes no larger than 8" in them.

ON CONSIGNMENT: The vendor at the show does not own the gun. It belongs to a friend, customer, or business associate, and he has been instructed to sell it, for which he will be paid a commission. He has no authority to discuss price. The price marked is 50% above BOOK VALUE. All used guns offered for sale at gun shows, without exception, are ON CONSIGNMENT, and the dealer is required by his Code of Ethics to tell you this as soon as you ask the price. (A BATF study has proven that since 1934 there has never been a single authenticated case of a used gun being offered for sale at a gun show that was actually owned by the dealer showing it.)

I'LL LET IT GO FOR WHAT I HAVE IN IT: I'll settle for what I paid for it plus a 250% profit.

MAKE ME AN OFFER: How dumb are you?

TELL ME HOW MUCH IT'S WORTH TO YOU: I'll bet you're even dumber than you look.


 
  

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38_Cal
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Re: Definetions??
Reply #10 - Feb 2nd, 2008 at 9:40pm
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We've been to some of the same gun show tables!   Grin

David
Montezuma, IA
  

David Kaiser
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Kurt_701
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Re: Definetions??
Reply #11 - Feb 3rd, 2008 at 2:42pm
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I always love it when they say, " Bore should clean up real nice."
  

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kinglooie
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Re: Definetions??
Reply #12 - Feb 3rd, 2008 at 4:28pm
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Hey you silly boy you forgot the best of them all........Its only been shot once.....God forbid the 120 mile trip it took on top of the horse trailer in a monsoon.  The only reason you found it was when you hit the brakes it flew into the back of the truck and busted the window along with the stock and slightly"accurizing" the barrel.  Nothing a little wire and duct tape won't fix.  Heck I only shot it once!!!!  It sure shot good though.  I'm only selling it to fix my truck.....hehehehehe.........How much is it worth???   This is usually over the phone at our store!!!!

Am I close enough???

kinglooie

Make it good!!
  
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marlinguy
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but they sure are neater!

Re: Definetions??
Reply #13 - Feb 3rd, 2008 at 6:20pm
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The term old seems to relate to the person's age that calls it old! I was looking at a 1950's levergun, when a young fella came up and said, "That's really nice for a gun that old!"
My first thought was it ain't that old, but my second thought was, it is to him!
Classic seems to mean anything that looks like a gun that is antique or "old", as I hear folks calling some of the new singleshots and leverguns "classics".
Many people consider "vintage" as those guns that fall into the C&R range.
  
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