Howdy Again !!!

I love this site!!!    Never too old to learn and there’s a lot of knowledge out there with you Guy’s…

Got some old Martini frames that I’m thinking about building a .38-55 “Schuetzen” system with.. However, I read on another post where loading may be a problem in the smaller actions.. We don’t need to chew our food twice here but I was wondering, it that’s a problem (in loading or breech-seating), how about front-loading the slug down onto the case like Pope did ??? Does this work only on paper-patch bullets ???

Never had the chance to read much about these guy’s and their methods (food came before books) and finding stuff at the local library is pretty rare..   

Appreciate your reply:

Redwing~

Hi MerwinBray !!!

Thanks for your quick feedback..

This has been a question in my own mind for quite some time.. I have experimented with various methods of loading my muzzleloader’s for quite some time and have even designed a charging system that is pretty good at keeping the bullet aligned to the bore and with no rifling in the loader.. Never understood why they needed that rifling ??? As long as the bullet was positioned longitudinal to the axis, once it was engraved and the tip (ogive) was kept centered, it should provide the same results.

I have been using (casting) the Lee R.E.A.L bullet for my M/L’s for over ten years now and I can testify that they are the best slug I’ve sent down the tube ever !!! Only problem is when I would enter a competition and they would ban it’s use.. Conical, OK but no REAL.

Believe it or not, my favorite M/L is an old T/C New Englander that just fit’s me perfectly.. Originally a fifty cal. I am now in the process of sleeving it down to a forty-five caliber thats extended to 36”, for longer distance shooting.. Right now I can hold a 1 ½” 5 shot group at 50 yd’s. Not bad for a 65 year old fart !!!

I need to find a machine shop to build my loading device and try it out.. As I said, it works great on a M/L and I don’t see any problem using soft lead in a cartridge rifle to do the same.. 

Was thinking about trying this on one of my other cartridge rifle’s but they are all 45/70’s and I recall once that you should not breech seat large caliber ammo as they need the “jump” into the rifled bore to reduce the drag coefficient… Another wife’s tale ??? 

All for now !!!

Redwing~

Hey Guy !!!

Here’s two !!!  One for the REAL system and one for the front-loading cartridge system.

Not to scale !!!  The disk is the sight blocker.. I was thinking the REAL could be nade from a hardwood as the bullet is very easy to load.. The other would be brass..

Also is a pfe (Teflon) tip I would have on my ramrod to keep the slug centered.

Thought’s ???

Redwing~

Last one !!!

Redwing, muzzle loading cartridge guns are fun.  A lot of the old percussion  muzzle loaders were turned at the muzzle for a bullet starter. A false muzzle isnt absolutely necessary.  The bullet starter can be made to hold the bullet which should be just a hair over land diameter.  

Some of the local long range muzzleloader shooters around here have been doing it thata way for a long time. 

I've retrofit some Green Mountain barrels with false muzzle's. It takes a little doing to get the rifling to line up perfect. It can be done. I dont know if the alignment is all that important. The loose false muzzle on my Barry Darr barrel doesnt seem to hurt anything.

Here in the northwest we had an old timer named Ed Brown. He drilled and rifled his own barrels. He made them with a false muzzle. He wrote a book on how  he did them. In his book he said he removed the false muzzle after the barrel was rifled, then he lapped the barrel so that it was just a little larger than the false muzzle. He said he did that so that it would have no chance of shaving lead when loading. 

When Shutzen shooting started in Tacoma in the late nineteen
seventies Ed brown heard about it and headed to the range with one of his homemade outfits. Ed set his targets up at two hundred yards and blasted away. The local shooters told him it was a one hundred yard match.  Ed told them he was used to shooting two hundred and would continue if it was ok. So, he did. He won the match.  The last time I saw him was about fifteen years ago. He was shooting on the bench next to me. He got up to go to the restroom. On the way he clutched his chest, yelled for help and fell into the bramble bush's. Sue Miller did CPR on him till the medics showed up and took over. He lasted a couple more years, but that was the end of his shooting days. He was really old. I have his book in a box somewhere out in the shop.  Man I'm a real windbag tonight!  
You build a FMBL on a Martini, you'll have a ball shooting it.  


                                                                             Joe.

Michael, Ed Browns book is in a box somewhere in my shop. You know, sorta like a needle in a haystack?
Ed Brown drilled and rifled his barrels with the false muzzle installed beforehand. Thats the correct way to do it.  The false muzzles I did were cut off and pinned to the barrel. The pinning is straightforward, aligning the rifling is the tricky part. I'm still kicking around ideas on how to improve the alignment.   
Dutchers book on the Ballard rifle has excellent pictures of false muzzles. 

                                                                     Joe.

Hi Joe !!!

Interesting info on Ed Brown !!! So much history is lost as time passes and when we need it…. Kinda like talking to your Dad about his family, when you could.. I didn’t, he didn’t and now that he’s gone, so is the history….

Like you, most of my good information is stored away but my memory tell’s me that the false muzzle was to assist and protect in loading the patched conical bullet for precision shooters. Those patches were not the paper wrapped type used in cartridges, but a fine cloth fitted in an cross format, loaded into the false muzzle to charge the bullet, with out damage to the patch or muzzle.

Digging around in my shop, I found an old hollow base mould in .45 cal.. Kinda like a Minnie ball only about 550 gr. in bullet weight.. Might work in my Roller …. As I see it,  I’m going to try this little project !!!  I’ll let you know how it turns out and maybe post some pic’s....

Take care !!!

Redwing~

Joe !!!

Thanks for the info....

Every little bit help's

Redwing~