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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) J.M. Marlin Ballard .22cal (Read 24347 times)
marlinguy
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Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

Re: J.M. Marlin Ballard .22cal
Reply #15 - Feb 19th, 2008 at 10:50pm
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Internally the part that attaches to the lever screw is pointed on top, and could be reworked to eliminate that initial movement that doesn't do much. The problem would be that it would then be tougher to accomplish assembly, as the pointed end allows that part to find the plunger slot in the extractor easier. I suppose it could be rounded instead of pointed, and then it might fit OK, and still move as sooner. But moving too soon will cause it to conact the breechblock before it completely drops too!
  
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.22Hepburn
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Re: J.M. Marlin Ballard .22cal
Reply #16 - Feb 20th, 2008 at 2:13pm
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I have a couple #3s in .22 that have the 2 piece factory extractor as well as some with the centerfire type. None will kick out the empty case like the Winchester kicker type, I don't believe that any Ballard will, unless someone devises one. By far the best extractor is the Eric Johnson 2 piece. It rides in a slot in the barrel and isn't sloppy like the 2 piece factory rimfire extractors. It always works well, it will push the case well out so it can be removed but is not a kicker type.
  
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MerwinBray
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Re: J.M. Marlin Ballard .22cal
Reply #17 - Feb 21st, 2008 at 9:52am
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40-82,
Does the Johson extractor use the original ballard hole next to the chamber or did he rework the area? Is their a picture of this somewhere? I know a man with one and have shot it but never thought to look at the extractor. Maybe if he brings it to his spring match he will let us look at it closer.
I have a #3 that does not have any extractor right now. It has some ugly work in the extractor area and I am trying to figure out what to do about it. I have shot it and used a very small screwdriver to extract the cases. I think mine is one of those Parkenfarker Ballards some mentioned earlier.
MerwinBray
  

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.22Hepburn
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Re: J.M. Marlin Ballard .22cal
Reply #18 - Feb 21st, 2008 at 1:02pm
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The Eric Johnson extractor Iwhich is 2 piece) is positioned in roughly the same location as the factory #3, it is rectangular positioned in a slot running parallel to the bore and slides in and out. It shaped almost like an L. The factory #3 extractor are cylindrcal (with a 90 degree short tip on the breech end) and is positioned in a hole, running parallel to the bore. The ones in my #3s are quite loose and sloppy, whereas the Johnson type can be fit snugly and will push the empty case out quite far (depending on how its timed and set up). I can say that any Ballards I have re-barelled will only have this type extractor installed. I'm tired of turning the factory extractor in one  of my #3s to get into the chamber each time I load a round. This one also causes buldged brass and I likely will not shoot it any more until I fix the buldged brass situation. The buldged brass doesn't seem to affect accuracy, but it could result in a burst case, 'better safe that sorry.
I just got a digital camera and I'm in the process of figuring out how to download pics. Once I do I'll post a picture of the extractor.
  
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Brent
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Re: J.M. Marlin Ballard .22cal
Reply #19 - Feb 21st, 2008 at 1:45pm
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Hep,
My #3 Ballard extractor has a round shaft as you describe but it does not turn in it's hole.  I never have to fuss with it at all, and I really like it but I would like it a lot more if it would lift the case another 1/8" or so and then the case would fall free of the chamber.

Brent
  
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.22Hepburn
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Re: J.M. Marlin Ballard .22cal
Reply #20 - Feb 21st, 2008 at 3:42pm
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Brent,
I think the problem with my extractor is that it moves too far out of the chamber and turns slightly. This gun is going to be re-barrelled and that extractor will go away, issue resolved. Actually it's going to get a fast twist barrel and Pope hammer conversion. I expect to shoot it at the .22 silhouette match at Raton during nationals week, 'can't wait.
  
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Brent
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Re: J.M. Marlin Ballard .22cal
Reply #21 - Feb 21st, 2008 at 3:53pm
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What is a fast twist barrel in a .22?

I am going to Raton too, and was wondering when the .22 silhouette might be relative to the Creedmoor and BPCR silhouette and QoB.  Do you know?

Also, what exactly are the parameters for a legal rifle in that game?  Are back bored rifles allowed?  Swiss buttplate are out right?  Triggers, weight?  What ammo works best?   

Look at that can of worms you opened!  Sorry about that.   

Brent
  
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.22Hepburn
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Re: J.M. Marlin Ballard .22cal
Reply #22 - Feb 21st, 2008 at 8:08pm
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Brent,
No problemo, the .22 BPCR match at Raton is basically a side match run as a fund-raiser for Whittington Center. The matches are held at the high-power pistol range, which is also where the BPCR lever gun silhouette match is held. The matches are re-entry and ties are decided by animal count. Shoot-offs are not possible since shooters compete on their off days from BP Silhouette/Mid-range Target.  A flyer with match details will be in shooters' packets.
Course of fire; 40 shots ; 10 each for chix, pigs, turkeys, and rams, 
chix off-hand, others can be shot prone or sitting. Distances are 50, 100, 150, and 200 meters. 10 minutes for sighters and record shots.
  BPCR classifications (use your Black Powder classification); iron sight 
and scope classes (scopes must be BPCR legal).
  Guns; single shots only (exposed hammer guns), no slings, hooked butt plates, palm rests, no tight shooting jackets, etc - in other words BPCR legal. BCPR guns with removable liners (Crossno, Shaver) are legal.
The rules mirror BPCR Silhouette.
  Wednesday nite there will be a beans and cornbread dinner with doorprize give-away, all entrantsare invited. This is entended to be a fun match, but I can say that over the years the competition has gotten very tough. Last year's match winner shot a 35. First-timers will find the range to be "challenging" to say the least. You can be sure that winning your class or being match winner is a major achievement since you will be competing against the best shooters in the country. We even have shooters come to Raton during Black Powder Week, JUST to shoot this match.
I hope I covered everything.
  
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.22Hepburn
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Re: J.M. Marlin Ballard .22cal
Reply #23 - Feb 21st, 2008 at 8:24pm
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Brent,
Re barrel twists; standard twist for .22 long rifle is 16 (short is 20). By "fast", I mean 14. Mine is a Douglas, which they'll make on special order. Actually, I got mine from CPA, since they had the best price. The Douglas barrels are button rifled and seem to require very little break-in. There are lots of choices for barrels but I've been very pleased with Douglas BP barrels, so I decided to give them a try. I don't have any guns with Shilen or Lilja, so I really can't comment though some of the top shooters turn in match-winning scores with them.
Ammo; you must shoot what your gun likes, force feeding won't work. Try different brands until you find the most accurate and hopefully it won't be $13/box stuff....... Unfortunately some guns will shoot anything, and some are picky - same deal as finding the right bullet/load for your BPCR rifle. 
AND all this becomes academic if the mirage screws up your sight picture as you launch that 40gr missile downrange.......
.22 BPCR silhouette has all the trials and tribulations of shooting a 45-70, except no smoke, no recoil, AND NO CASTING or LOADING, yippee!
  
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Brent
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Re: J.M. Marlin Ballard .22cal
Reply #24 - Feb 21st, 2008 at 10:26pm
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Hep, 
Thanks for the info on Raton.  I will plan on it for sure.  My rifle does, unfortunately, much prefer the $15 ammo.  Eley Tenex EPS at 1064 fps as a matter of fact.  I shoot it a lot.  Almost always at 200 yds both offhand and bench.  So, I'm looking forward to shooting the silhouette at that range.  I was wondering if the subsonic ammo has enough giddyup to take down the rams at 200 meters though.  Should I be shopping for something faster?   

What does the faster twist do for you?  Since you can't reload .22 (at least not easily-I have some bp reloaded .22 LR however), are you planning to shoot that heavy Aguila ammo with it?  I don't hear good things about that stuff.   

My apologies to all for the continued distraction but I gotta take advantage of someone that's been there - done that.   
Brent
  
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.22Hepburn
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Re: J.M. Marlin Ballard .22cal
Reply #25 - Feb 22nd, 2008 at 10:19am
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The standard velocity ammo will take down the rams, tho I've seen a few rams left standing, but that is only occasionally. I've tried the the EPS Fast and it seems to work well. Have you tried any of the Lapua ammo? I've never shot any of the Aquila, but will check it out.
'Hard to quantify given the nature of this type of shooting, but the faster twist does seem to stabilize the bullets better out to the ram line (200 meters). Also, I've shot some nice small groups on the turkey (I have a set of swingers that I practice with at my club range) in windy conditions. I attributed that to the faster twist. I'm hoping to be able to shoot high velocity ammo like Federal Champion effectively on the rams. So far the high velocity stuff hasn't proven to be as consistent as standard velocity in windy conditions. I've read (can't remember where) that the high velocity stuff is vulnerable to buffetting by the wind as it slows down. This isn't as much of a problem with centerfire high velocity bullets since they never slow down this much. If the combo of fast twist with the high velocity ammo works then I've achieved my goal = get the bullet downrange as fast as possible and have that bullet shoot as accurately as possible.
I'm obviously spending a lot of time/energy on this. The reason is that we're working with a 40gr bullet and especially at Raton, there is often heavy wind conditions to contend with. Raton is noted for severe wind conditions, especially in August. Make sure to bring your rain gear, you'll likely need it. Any way to overcome the wind will result in more hits on the animals. I've been told and keep in mind - "this is a game of inches". When you get a half a bullet on a turkey and it goes over, it becomes real clear. And sometimes they don't go over...
I hope I'm not coming across as preachy, 'just trying to cram in a lot of info based on my experiences, there's a lot to consider. It's really discouraging to get a good sight picture, perfect break on the shot, and the animal is still standing....
  
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leadball
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Re: J.M. Marlin Ballard .22cal
Reply #26 - Feb 22nd, 2008 at 2:51pm
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40-82Hepburn;
                    When you say standard velocity just what do you mean, are you considering Lapua M-L and Eley 10X as sub-sonic or standard velocity.  I'm much interested because my rifle club is going to start a 22RF silhouette match this summer. I'm hoping to find something a little cheaper than the two mentioned.
                   Glad to hear you are using Douglas Barrels, their place is close to where I live --good people--I own several Douglas Barrels.leadball
  
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.22Hepburn
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Re: J.M. Marlin Ballard .22cal
Reply #27 - Feb 22nd, 2008 at 6:17pm
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Sorry to be confusing re velocity. The Lapua Signum and Master I've been using run about 1050 fps. I think Wolf and Eley are in the same vicinity. The Signum and Master run about $7/box from Bruno Shooters Supply. Two less expensive brands I've tried and seem to shoot well are Eley Club Extra and Lapua Super Club. I think these run about $3.75/box. Bricks or cases will save you a few bucks. I have to say the less expensive Wolf is hit and miss and my guns, a couple just don't seem to like it, others are ok with it. I haven't had much luck with any CCI ammo, 'not sure why. 
One thing I haven't done enough of is writing down and keeping records of what has worked and what hasn't. This is probably the only way to keep everything straight.
'Glad to hear about more .22 silhouette matches starting up. They're getting more and more popular. Per Dave Crossno, the Tornado Alley .22 Silhouette match at OKC, will have shooters coming from as far away as Texas, Kansas, Missouri, and me from NJ. That'll give you an idea of how serious some of the shooters are in this game. My home range has been running matches for a bit over 2 years. There are only a couple of shooters with dedicated single-shots so pretty much any .22 rifle is allowed. I don't have a problem competing against the scoped Anschutz' and other bolt guns. I get a kick out of beating them with one of my old Ballards or Hepburns and soon my new #2 Rolling Block. They get really unhappy when I beat them with a Crossno liner in one of my BPCR rifles.... but it's all in good fun and everyone enjoys shooting at those pesky little iron critters. The club will be building a 300yd firing line shortly. We already have plans for long-range .22 matches, target and buffalos, 'should be fun.
  
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iowa
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Re: J.M. Marlin Ballard .22cal
Reply #28 - Feb 22nd, 2008 at 8:00pm
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Brent: If you get a chance, you might want to try the .22 Silhouette matches 40 to 100M at Ackley, IA.  They are the correct size more or less for that distance, maybe something like 1/5 size.  Don't recall for sure, but it was a hoot.  Also I think they are going to shoot the .22 Creedmoor 333yds, as a side match at these events.  That is at a 2'X 2' plate with I think its a 11" inch center...Might be a good tune up for your Raton trip... best regards  steve witt      PS anybody else in the neighborhood check it out at (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
  
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Brent
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Re: J.M. Marlin Ballard .22cal
Reply #29 - Feb 22nd, 2008 at 9:41pm
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Steve, I'm definitely interested in the Ackley match though 100 meters does not sound challengiing on steel if crosssticks are used.  And I may have a conflict. 

Art and I have brought our .22s to the buffalo matches and shot the miniherd once or twice just for kicks - offhand they are sorta interesting.  Bring a gun or use one nof ours in April and join us.   

Hep, thanks again for the info. I think I have a good idea of what to expect.  I'll have to put a new buttplate on my low wall, but I'll bring it along.
  
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