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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) J.M. Marlin Ballard .22cal (Read 24304 times)
sixpak
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J.M. Marlin Ballard .22cal
Jan 20th, 2008 at 3:05pm
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I am new to this board and would like to get some info on my rifle. It is a jm marlin ballard .22 cal. but the barrel is stamped winchester model 52. the reciever is marked jm marlin ballard patent nov 5 1861. the but plate says ballard, however I`m confused winchester model 52 was a bolt action from what i gather.what kind of offbreed have I got?

                                                        Thanks for your help!!
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38_Cal
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Re: J.M. Marlin Ballard .22cal
Reply #1 - Jan 20th, 2008 at 3:32pm
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Winchester Model 52 barrels were known for top accuracy.  Looks like some enterprising gunsmith replaced a shot out/rotted out Ballard barrel with a Winchester.  How's it shoot?

David
Montezuma (temp's 13 and rising!) IA
  

David Kaiser
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marlinguy
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Re: J.M. Marlin Ballard .22cal
Reply #2 - Jan 20th, 2008 at 3:38pm
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If the extractor moves straight back to extract the empty case, then it was a #3 Ballard, but if it rocks back, then someone converted one of the other Ballard models to rimfire .22 caliber. Either way, as .38_cal said, it's been gunsmithed to make a rimfire shooter.
  
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Green_Frog
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Re: J.M. Marlin Ballard .22cal
Reply #3 - Jan 20th, 2008 at 4:20pm
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You also can tell something about the original configuration of the receiver by looking at the firing pin.  If it appears to have been unchanged from the factory (nos signs of alteration of the block, etc) it was probably a .22 rf from the factory (#3 or #3F) but if it is altered from a centerfire or reversible for another caliber, or if the breech block has been bushed, then it was one of the many other models.  Smiley

If you look under the barrel tenon on the inside (you need to take out the block to do this) you can determine whether you have a cast action (as most rimfires were) or the heavier forged action.  The cast action has a hollow space under the barrel tenon while the forged action is solid there.  Huh

How is the rifle stocked?  It should have a classic looking stock (almost a field-looking stock) if original, while many of the Ballards that gunsmiths built up for competition had more modern looking stocks designed for multi-position or straight prone shooting.  Undecided

The Winchester 52 Barrel, as David said, is a very logical and likely gunsmith replacement, and could have occurred any time from about the mid-20s on.  It is a classic piece of work regardless, since of course the Model 52 is long discontinued as well.  I'd guess the work was done no later than the '50s, but that's just a SWAG.  Cool

Regardless of what you find, it's a neat piece of competitive shooting history.  Congratulations, and enjoy shooting it!

Froggie

PS  What about the trigger(s) on this rifle?  Is it a single trigger or double set, and if single, is it mounted on a plate on the bottom of the breech block?  If this last, it was a DST action that was converted to single trigger to make it legal for NRA competition. Sure would be nice to have DSTs though!  Embarrassed
How about a picture?   Cheesy
« Last Edit: Jan 20th, 2008 at 4:26pm by Green_Frog »  
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sixpak
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Re: J.M. Marlin Ballard .22cal
Reply #4 - Jan 20th, 2008 at 4:33pm
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The rifle shoots very well.Has the original wood and the extractor moves straight back,and  will completely clear the spent casing from the breech.The rear sight however is missing,any suggestions for a replacement rear sight? this rifle was given to me by a friend who used it in his barn to shoot mice and rats in his corn crib with rat shot. after I recieved it I cleaned the barrel and it shows no sign of damage from the ratshot.That is about all I know about the gun,except that it shoots well as a point shooting rifle.
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Green_Frog
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Re: J.M. Marlin Ballard .22cal
Reply #5 - Jan 20th, 2008 at 5:06pm
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sixpack, the Winchester bbl probably is already drilled and tapped with two pairs of holes a little over 6" between pairs.  They are for the older styled Lyman and Unertl scope blocks for the old long tube externally adjusted scopes.  Any of these scopes look (and more importantly work) ell on this type of rifle.  If it is not predrilled, and there is a dovetail for rear sight, just about any standard field type rear barrel mounted sight will do.  A classier solution would be a tang sight, mounted in the two holes that Marlin provided for you on the rear upper surface of the receiver.  The hole spacing for the modern Marlin rifles should be the same if you want to buy new factory production, or any of the original or reproduction tang sights for Ballard could also be fitted. Yet another possibility would be to have a friendly gunsmith make up a long scope mount (to utilize the existing screw holes) from a blank available from Brownell's, etc and use Weaver-type mounts if you want a modern scope.  I would avoid drilling any new holes in the receiver...it's best left as original as possible, IMO. 

Froggie
  
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marlinguy
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Re: J.M. Marlin Ballard .22cal
Reply #6 - Jan 22nd, 2008 at 11:24pm
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sixpak,
Sounds like you have a Ballard #3 Gallery gun, with the previously mentioned Win 52 barrel. The Ballard #3 was strictly rimfire, so it didn't have a reversible firing pin, and thus no screw in the breecblocks to allow removal of the firing pin. 
A tang sight for good casual plinking can be purchased at the following:
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You can put a sight blank in the rear dovetail, available from Brownells for $5.-Vall
  
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Brent
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Re: J.M. Marlin Ballard .22cal
Reply #7 - Jan 23rd, 2008 at 7:45am
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Are all #3s supposed to lift the empty case clear of the chamber?  Mine does not and it is all but impossible to clear the empty with gloves on while squirrel hunting.

Brent
  
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.22Hepburn
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Re: J.M. Marlin Ballard .22cal
Reply #8 - Feb 18th, 2008 at 8:47pm
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I have a #3 Ballard prone rifle that was sent to Winchester factory in 1929. They installed a heavy Model 52 barrel on the gun. It is equipped with a Lyman 5A scope and was shot in competition in the 30's and 40's by the man who gave it to my father. The gun is an excellent shooter, but when it was barreled and chambered a centerfire type extractor was installed and I notice that there is a bulge in the brass by the rim. Unfortunately, the factory did a poor job fitting the extractor. It's a really fine example of these old prone/position target rifles, many of which were built on Ballard actions.
  
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Brent
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Re: J.M. Marlin Ballard .22cal
Reply #9 - Feb 18th, 2008 at 8:53pm
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I had a ballard with such an extractor.  It did not cause accuracy problems and I don't feel that case bulging is really very important to accuracy. But the darn extractor would get behind the case occasionally causing a number of difficult and interesting problems.  Much prefer the straight lift extractor, but sure which mine would lift the case all the way clear off the chamber.  Still no answer yet as to what the norm was for this sort of extactor.

Brent
  
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westerner
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Re: J.M. Marlin Ballard .22cal
Reply #10 - Feb 18th, 2008 at 9:24pm
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Brent, 
real squirrel hunters dont use glove's.   
In the old days real squirrel hunters let a fingernail grow long to pick the case out of the rifle. A truly keen squirrel hunter would grow a long nail on both hands and shoot left or right handed. sometimes from the hip.  Smiley you should know that Brent  Wink


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Brent
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Re: J.M. Marlin Ballard .22cal
Reply #11 - Feb 18th, 2008 at 9:31pm
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joe -

Dunno why you happen to be so dense.  Guess, you haven't seen every #3 ballard out there yet.  Oh well.

Brent
  
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marlinguy
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Re: J.M. Marlin Ballard .22cal
Reply #12 - Feb 18th, 2008 at 9:32pm
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Brent,
I have three #3 Ballards, and none of them completely extract an empty case. I have one more coming soon that is in .22 short, so I'll see if that short case completely extracts an empty. 
I too have a Winchester barreled Ballard in .22 short that uses the modified centerfire extractor, and it drives me nuts! Wonderfulluy accurate, and easy to chamber, but I have to use a pair of 90 degree needlenose pliers to grasp the empties after firing. 
You might consider taking a pair of these pliers along when you use gloves. They really make a difference!
  
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Re: J.M. Marlin Ballard .22cal
Reply #13 - Feb 18th, 2008 at 9:37pm
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Brent, I was just funnin ya.   Grin

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Brent
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Re: J.M. Marlin Ballard .22cal
Reply #14 - Feb 18th, 2008 at 9:39pm
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marlinguy, 
thanks for the info.  My old Ballard .22 had the centerfire style of extractor and it just plain sucked.  But the #3 has the straight lift style (is this what folks call the 2-piece?).  It stops short of lifting the case completely out, and getting it out the rest of the way is a pain as it really sticks with Wolf ammo and similar.   

Notice that sixpak says his lifts the case completely clear of the chamber - that sounds good to me.  But he does not mention if it is a short or long rifle case.   

When I work the action on mine, there is a fair amount of lever movement before the extractor engages and begins to extract. That makes me think that perhaps it could/should have a longer range of operation than it does.   

Brent
  
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