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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) mirror lensed spotting scopes (Read 7854 times)
Brent
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mirror lensed spotting scopes
Dec 29th, 2007 at 11:51am
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I posted this on a long range muzzleloading list where it may be more appropriate but I thought I would post here as well.  Perhaps there are some optics experts in the house.


Yesterday, I was killing time in a Scheels department store.  I noticed that they had a very compact Burris 2575 mirror lens spotting scope. I've never looked through a mirror lens scope so I thought I would take a peek on a hunch that they would have superior eye relief.    A self proclaimed "Palma F-Class" (whatever that means) guy waiting at the same counter told me it would not have any eye relief at all, but I chose not to listen to him.  Indeed, he was wrong.  It probably has the longest eye relief of any scope I have ever looked through.  

Is this common to all mirror lens scopes?

This particular scope is a cheapy $220 on Ebay (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links).

It weighs 33 oz and is 10" long.  

The 25-75 zoom is sorta ridiculous in some ways, but long range shooting has the least need for quality optics since seeing the spotting disk is simple with even the crummiest scope.  So, IF this scope will show mirage well, it might be a great help in Creedmoor matches where coaching is disallowed.  

Anyone have any thoughts about this particular scope or about mirror lenses in general?

Brent
  
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Green_Frog
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Re: mirror lensed spotting scopes
Reply #1 - Dec 29th, 2007 at 12:06pm
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Brent, just a few random comments for what they are worth...

Reflector telescopes (those that do their major magnification with a curved mirror) have been in use in astronomy at least for a couple of hundred years (maybe since Newton?)  If you are talking about that type of optics in a compact spotting scope, they are very popular with the birdwatching set for their compactness and good reolution.  I have virtually no experience with them on the rifle range, but when used in other applications they have proven quite good.  They tend to be short and fat rather than long and skinny, right?  Smiley

For whatever reason, many of the stronger powers of scopes tend to be mirror-based as a cost cutting measure...witness the mirror-type telephoto lenses the photography set uses when they go to high magnifications.  This may also have to do with having a manageable size.  Huh

HTH ~ Froggie
  
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Brent
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Re: mirror lensed spotting scopes
Reply #2 - Dec 29th, 2007 at 12:21pm
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Yes, I know they are old technology - pretty much all of the basic optics are - it's the details that are  modern.   

But anyway, does this style of scope necessarily result in longer eye relief?   

And do they show mirage as well as a say my Kowa?
Brent
  
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J.D.Steele
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Re: mirror lensed spotting scopes
Reply #3 - Dec 29th, 2007 at 1:40pm
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Quote:
And do they show mirage as well as a say my Kowa?
Brent

  
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J.D.Steele
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Re: mirror lensed spotting scopes
Reply #4 - Dec 29th, 2007 at 1:42pm
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Quote:
And do they show mirage as well as a say my Kowa?
Brent


Maybe JoeB can answer that one, I double-dog-dare you to ask him! Maybe you can decipher his system....
Regards, Joe
  
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Re: mirror lensed spotting scopes
Reply #5 - Dec 29th, 2007 at 2:02pm
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I would think that eye releaf would be a function of the DESIGN of the occular lense.

  

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Brent
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Re: mirror lensed spotting scopes
Reply #6 - Dec 29th, 2007 at 7:14pm
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Quote:

Maybe JoeB can answer that one, I double-dog-dare you to ask him! Maybe you can decipher his system....
Regards, Joe


Uncle, Unnncle, UUUNNNNCCCCLLLLEEEE!!!!!

You win.   

Brent

  
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Brent
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Re: mirror lensed spotting scopes
Reply #7 - Dec 29th, 2007 at 7:16pm
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Cat_Whisperer wrote on Dec 29th, 2007 at 2:02pm:
I would think that eye releaf would be a function of the DESIGN of the occular lense.


Why?  I don't know diddly about optics but I remember lots of angles of refraction and whatnot from physics.  I would think that a shorter scope would allow for a longer eye relief just for that fact alone.  But I really don't know.   

Apparently, this particular scope does not come with a variable eyepiece which would not be needed for a long range application.

Brent

  
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PeterM
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Re: mirror lensed spotting scopes
Reply #8 - Dec 30th, 2007 at 6:15pm
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Brent,

Eye relief has nothing do with the mechanics of a Newtonian lens arrangement.   (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links);

It is partly a function the exit pupil. (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

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Pete
  
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13Echo
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Re: mirror lensed spotting scopes
Reply #9 - Dec 30th, 2007 at 7:09pm
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The mirror lensed spotting scopes are what is called a "catadioptic" system, that is it uses both lenses and mirrors.  The light enters through a front meniscus lense and passes to the mirror at the rear where it is reflected to a silvered sport or another, smaller,  mirror on or just behind the front lense which reflects the light back to the eyepiece.  They look short but, because of the folded light path, they have a long focal length.  Also, because of the folded light path they tend to have less contrast than an all lense system and the depth of field is frequently quite shallow.  The better versions are very good indeed.  A Questar is one of the finest small telescopes you can buy.  The various other versions such as the Meade can also be very good.  It is still la matter of you get what you pay for.

Jerry Liles
  
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Re: mirror lensed spotting scopes
Reply #10 - Dec 31st, 2007 at 4:36am
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Here ya go Brent.

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                                                                Joe.

  

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Re: mirror lensed spotting scopes
Reply #11 - Dec 31st, 2007 at 2:24pm
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If nothing has changed, the mirrored scopes show left as right and right as left! Still true? Could be a major source of communication problems between spotter and shooter.
  
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Brent
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Re: mirror lensed spotting scopes
Reply #12 - Dec 31st, 2007 at 2:55pm
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Irascible wrote on Dec 31st, 2007 at 2:24pm:
If nothing has changed, the mirrored scopes show left as right and right as left! Still true?


Nope
  
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Cat_Whisperer
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Re: mirror lensed spotting scopes
Reply #13 - Dec 31st, 2007 at 4:56pm
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Irascible wrote on Dec 31st, 2007 at 2:24pm:
If nothing has changed, the mirrored scopes show left as right and right as left! Still true? Could be a major source of communication problems between spotter and shooter.


It depends entirely on the scope.  If it's designed right the image will not be inverted.
  

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Brent
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Re: mirror lensed spotting scopes
Reply #14 - Jan 2nd, 2008 at 2:17pm
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Here are a couple more of the same type of scope :
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Note that the eye relief is much greater than the Kowas etc.  Must be something to the design style having a longer eye relief than what we consider more conventional scopes.   

Brent
  
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