Dick Trenk wrote to me saying that Mrs. Gunn was turning Dr. Gunn's records and written material over to him for sorting/cataloging/? and asking if I had a suggestion about the ultimate home for this material.
I responded that the ASSRA archives, Rudi Prusok, seemed like a good place-I know of no other gun organization with this library type place.
Dick writes now and again, wrote this AM. 
I talked to Rudi some time back.
What I'd like to see is some changes or improvements or modernization to the archives; certainly none of this is in any way a criticism of Rudi or what he's done.
I'd like to see:
A web site for the archives
A list of books and periodicals and ??, sorted or indexed several ways
For example, by "Ned Roberts", by "Muzzle Loading" and maybe by "Target Rifle".
Indexing or cataloging is a big effort, makes the reader's/researcher's life much easier. 
Some to a lot of material on the web site, free and clear to read, right there.
Some or a lot of the material available on CD. Why isn't the Journal available on CD, from the earliest issue?  Much of this material is out of copyright, why not put it on CD?

I have room constaints, can't have boxes of journals etc-but I have plenty of room for a CD or a hundred. Would folks buy the 1921 Lyman manual on CD? I would, price right.

A bit over three months ago I wrote to the ASSRA President and officers, asking for:
financial reports (offered to pay)
consideration of nationals at venues other than E.G.
consideration of spending some $$ on the archives 

To date, there has been no answer other than the Bob Carow "this isn't official" and the John Merz "I'm not the President any more" responses.

If the purpose of the ASSRA is to collect #35 per year from 2000 members and spend the bulk of that money on improvements to a range where maybe 50 members shoot three times a year; and if only those 50 or so attendee members get to vote on the direction of the organization and who the officers are; and if those officers need not respond to members-like me; then what we have here may not be a non-profit organization but may be an organization devoted to subsidizing the shooting of those 50 guys-giving them something of certainly greater value than what they pay. Subsidizing the shooting of these 50 or so fine fellows may be what the membership wants; but I must wonder if this accretion of value to the 50 isn't income, or profit.

I hope-I know- that there's some way to allow the membership to voice it's desires as to the initiatives and direction of the ASSRA, a way to offer them, the members, alternatives to the initiatives and direction of the 50.   
I'd like to see this happen, an open discussion-in the Journal. 
Otherwise, I'm back in the Campbell Grant days with a looming battle that I'd rather avoid.

joe b.

 

JB has brought up a couple of valid points.
Just a couple of personal comments regarding the ASSRA Archives.

  The future of the ASSRA archives are a major concern, and they have been for a quiet a while.  During the time I was Editor it was something the BOD was attempting to find a practical and reasonable solution for.  I can only assume that this is an ongoing concern.  It is a difficult and complex problem with no easy answer.

The ASSRA has only one "paid" position---Journal Editor--and it is basically an honorarium that is well under minimum wage for the time and effort involved.  The other positions are volunteer with some reimbursement for out of pocket expenses.
Administering the Archives is real labor of love for Rudi, but like almost all of us he has only a limited amount of time to devote to it.   I know that he has been looking toward finding some one to pick up the mantle so that a transition can be done effectively and efficiently.   Managing an archive requires some technical requirements and skills as well as space and time.  It's not just something that can be stashed in the basement or garage.  I understand that the ASSRA Archive would make up a rather substantial truck load of paper,  and I'm not talking a pickup truck!
  ALL non-acidd-free printed material since the post civil war era is deteroriating.  It requires special care.  Transferring it all to digital data is possible, and might be
the ideal; but at a pretty fierce cost in terms of equipment and especially time.  Digitizing, indexing, cross indexing and cross-referencing while desireable are tasks that would require much more effort/time than is currently available. 
   
Perhaps someone with the time and equipment might be able to scan and format all of the Journals and make them available on CDs on a for-profit basis with BOD approval in a somewhat simialr manner to what has been done with the Journal Index.
    I have several othe periodicals that have been done that way and none of them are really very good. The  actual page to page images are OK but there are significant problems that have to be solved to make them really usable.

This in no way represents ANYTHING other than my own personal opinion based on my past experience as an x-officio BOD member while Editor and a number of years experience working in the museum/archive field.

I would suggest that any college or university would be the WORST of all possible caretakers for any archive involving firearms.
Staff and faculty rotate too often, and "those musty old boxes of gun stuff" would likely as not get tossed out within 20 years...

As for voicing your opinion on another forum; feel free. It takes very little to set up your very own web forum, were you can be king and discuss whatever you like.


Paul F.

When Dick Trenk asked for suggestions on another board about where Dr Gunn's papers should go, I also suggested the ASSRA Archive. I must admit, I didn't know then just how large the current archive was.

I have on several occasions ordered copies of documents from Rudi and I have has a very rapid response and the charges are very reasonable indeed.  I'm sure all ASSRA foks will be appreciative of just how much work he does.

As to the Archive going into some Museum or other Institution, that's a fine idea at first, but I have found that many such institutions charge high rates for copies of documents and delivery can take weeks if not months.

Once out of the possession of ASSRA there is no real control as to how they are stored, who has access or control over pricing charges for copies of documents. Storage space is often a problem even in museums and libraries and I have known books and other documents either sold off or otherwise disposed of simply because they weren't consulted or withdrawn for reference. I'm sure none of us would like to see that happen.

Perhaps othere would like to air their views in this thread before any final decision is made.

Harry

Why do we not figure out a way to either pay for help and keep it for ourselves?? I am sure the members would be willing to pay enough more for these services and to have good help. I know I would. Whitey

You are exactly right Boats.  We keep raising range fees in the north Georgia area and it has no effect on those wanting to join.  It now cost 900 bucks to join River Bend and we are getting new membership applications with a 900 dollar check attached every week.

At Pickens County we have a moratorium on allowing any additional members until 2010.  We just raised the membership to 300 from 250 members in July to reduce the number of people on the waiting list which was about 50 at that time.  It's been five months and we already have over 60 people on the waiting list and it grows weekly.  Dues notices went out December 1.  If they are not paid by January 10, you are dropped and the next guy on the waiting list is allowed in and you go to the back of the waiting list.   Finding a decent place to shoot around here is getting more difficult every day, so the price keeps going up. 

I have to chuckle every time I see somebody bitch about paying 35 dollars to ASSRA because it goes to keep up their range at EG.  35 bucks wouldn't buy a blank membership application form around here.

My local club has maybe 500 members, no waiting list, dues are $75/year, six ranges from 25 to 300 yds, most firing points are covered, air-conditioned (EXTREMELY important down here) rest rooms and reloading area, regular IPSC and High-Power and Silhouette matches, relaxed atmosphere but many good ole boys. Very, very few real single shot buffs but lots of once-a-year deer hunters and fun-loving handgun blasters.

I usually shoot during the week so as to avoid all the stares and whispers, heh heh.
Regards, Joe

PS: seems like, to me at least it seems, for all those many hundreds of $/year, it might be a lot smarter (DUHH!) to just purchase some land instead of financing someone else's purchase with their profit from my dues money. That's what I did, 8 acres and a 100-yd range. Of course I'm just a dumb Mississippian so what can I possibly know........

I'd like th answer two different threads here. First the idea of the Milwaukee Museum. I lived in Milwaukee a few years ago I went to the Museum to see the Nunnemacher collection. After tramping through the entire building and not finding one gun on display I went to the office. At the office I asked where the Nunnemacher colection was kept, nobody in the main office knew what I was talking about. When I explained what the collection was the receptionest sneered at me " Oh those old guns you'll never see those again. We have finaly taken them down." After that experence I will never support the sending them to a Public museum.
As to Joe's post; Matchs we own Beasons Range why would we want to go rent ranges around the country like homeless gypsies? Why don't we get the NRA to take Camp Perry on the road too. The Associations range is in Enta Green Indiana all are welcome to come and join us. 
Secondly the Archives Do you have some sugestions as to the computer/ library knowlegeable folks that we have overlooked? If so please share. The reason that the archives question has not been settled is that all the solutions proposed are worse than what we have. 
Lastly Joe The space alternative views is called Letters to the Editor. I have published every letter that I have recieved so far warts and all. All opinions will be published if they send me a letter. The reason that you don't know wh the candidates for office is No one has nominated them yet. If you would like to throw your hat in the ring please let us know. 
As to the content of the Journal I print everything that I can get my hands on Do you honestly belive that I am rejecting well written articles  that arrive in bundles every day. I scrape to get content every month. As for the color so far you are the only complaint that the magazine has color pages, As to equipment lists no one sends them to me. In my first yera I have published every equipment list that I have recieved and to date I have recieved NONE.
Frankly I am proud of what I have put out in the Journal. The historical articles seem completely appropriate in a magazine dedicated to the study of rifles manufactured between the end of the Civil War and the Beginning of WWI. I have reached out to the ISSA and soon articles written by their members will be part of the Journal also. I know that I can't fill Rudi's shoes so I don't try to I just do the best that I can with what I am given. If you think that what I am doing is so bad Write a letter to the editor and ask members to send their votes to you so you can indenpendently count them. Then send the results to me and I will publish them.

John Merz  (AKA 40 Rod)

40-rod

i would like to know how you know elton johns cats name--also sounds like you may be gettin upset-----you dirty dozen

Well put 40_Rod.

I have to put in a word of support for the Milwaukee Public Museum.
The Milwaukee Public Muesum now has a nice firearms display up in the area of the Streets of Old Milwaukee. The way things in general are displayed in nearly all museums have changed and that includes almost all things collected--be it stamps, coins, buttons, or firearms. Al Muchka, who is the curator, is a historian and is interested in the firearms, however, he has lots of other areas of responsibility. He can only display what he can convince the board to display. 
When the NRA convention was in Milwaukee, he was able to present a display of the best of the collection. Since then he has been able to do a couple displays of guns, but he does have to deal with others in management and on the museum board that do not like guns.
Cheers,
Laurie

JD our club was just like yours 400 members low dues and been on the same 480 acres for over 50 years.  However when you get into the "system" the bureaucrats find all sorts of things and they will not let go.  None of our issues were related to the original neighbor complaint on noise.  It was all use permit and regulations that had changed since our original permit for "a rifle range" 

However the point of all this is ASSRA and maintaining not only a magazine but valuable archives and a private range, all on 35 bucks a year from a finite and perhaps dwindling membership. The archives should be preserved cost the club almost nothing to maintain now and perhaps a very large amount in the future.

Boats

Re:  Milwaukee/Nunnemacher collection.

let me preface this by stating that for almost 15 years I was a musem director affiliated and trained in a number of national and international musem training programs.  I do know a little about musuems and archives.

At the NRA show in Milwaukee I had a chance to talk with the curator who was responsible for the nunnemacher collection.

As Laurie mentioned musuems have changed the way they display artifacts. Starting about 15 or 20 years ago they moved from large topical displays of related artifacts; as one would have seen with the Nunnemacher display all out in one hall at one time; to more topically integrated displays that have higher educational content.  this is called "interpretive" exhibits and it is still the current philosophy.  the old large complete displays were little more than open storage.
  I will admit that I too enjoyed being able to go to a museum and see ALL the guns or whatever, but in today's reality you'll only find that in small low budget museums unless you got specifically to a firearms museum where the museums statement of purpose is to display guns---period!!!!!   

For the NRA show they pulled out a smalle selection of Nunnemacher material and displayed is as a short term temporary display that they gave NRA attendiees a special discounted admission to see.   When the curator was visiting the ASSRA booth we discussed the exhibit and the whole Nunnemacher "problem"  I was warned that if I wanted to see single shots not to bother buying the ticket.  the combination of changing exhibit philosophy,  museum economics, and an increasing un-firearms oriented American population probably means that unless a major donor is willing to fund a special (very expensive) Nunnemacher exhibit no one will ever see the whole collection on public display.   As at most museums qualified researchers will probably be able to get access for study purposes

Well, I guess you're right, I didn't like the answer. Mainly, I ddn't understand that it was supposed to be an answer, I guess.

40_Rod wrote on Dec 15^th, 2007 at 9:27am:


Is that Your Final Answer? (VBG)
Regards, Joe

Not to belabor the archives situation, but I can state that members of the BofD and other interested parties HAVE been discussing possibilities and near-impossibilities for what we might be able to do to care for and have continued easy access to the archives.  This has been going on since before I started my term on the Board, went through my tenure, and AFAIK has continued.

Some of the ideas will involve a certain set of events occurring or some as yet undetermined individual coming forward to do that work that we cannot have done for pay.  Nothing has ever reached the point where it can be publicized, but it IS being thought of, and suggestions are being accepted and considered.  The magnitude of the job is staggering and the volume of data as well as the volume of correspondence which will be ongoing would come as a surprise to most folks.  If the BofD started spending the money that it would cost to professionally administer this huge volume of material, there would be a lot of noise about that huge expenditure of money...look at what has been said about money to maintain the national range.   

I will try to explain what this involves by saying that Rudi gets letters from all over the world for info, and the archives we have are very likely the premier such collection in the world, private or public.  It has been presented in discussions that I have participated in that the volume is on the order of a tractor-trailer load of paper and books.  This accumulation happened at first mostly by accident from random donations of materials from Association members, but for the last several many years it has been due to the labor of love by Rudi Prusok.  If the collection has a soul and a personality, they come from Rudi, and it will only be when someone else takes up the mantle from him that it will be able to continue, much less increase or change.  The only organization I can even think of administering this collection would be the NRA, and I'm not sure even they would be willing to take it on and continue the service that is now available.  JMHO, but the very idea of turning all of this resource over to a museum or library somewhere with the possibility of it getting squirrelled away from use by all of us is simply horrifying.   


Charlie Shaeff
Green Frog

Milwaukee Museum collection; about 6 years ago I had a private showing of the firearms collection. I examined about 5 or 6 Meunier muzzleloading schuetzen rifles and a similar number of Ballards modified by the same maker. Also, one of the few remaining Ferguson breechloading flinters left over from the spoils at King's mtn. My frienc, who has left, was Director of Collections and Exhibitions. Just 25 years
ago the Smithsonian had long racks of rifles and you could get a close look at a half dozen Hawken rifles plus others too numerous to mention. Last time I visited the display had be "dumbed down" with only a few pieces on display. Years ago as a kid before they built the Air and Space complex aircraft were housed in quonset huts. Most were parked nose down and what fun for a kid to touch some of those
WW1 engines and machine guns. 

fred