Hey All,

I'm infected with this Ballard bug. I need help Id'ing a couple of new additions to the safe. I think I have the first pretty much confirmed, but the second has me puzzled. I think the first is a #4 Perfection. The second maybe a Union Hill? The single trigger and lever have me confused. 

Thanks
Mike

I don't yet have it in hand, but from the other photos it appears to have three lines.

Mike

Phil,

It's been rebarreled with a .22 Win Model 52 barrel, but it seems to have the original centerfire block. I'll probably be keeping it as is for the time being, I was just stumped with the model.

The other is a cast rcvr. with a 32-40 barrel, the barrel # doesn't match the rest of it. The barrel is kinda loose, had to shoot it yesterday so it got a coupla wraps of teflon to tighten'er up. Shot it with some hard .319 165gr bullets I had on hand. Loaded some with 12 gns H4227, and some with 38 grns goex ffg and .060 vfw no compression, seated way out there. Bullets are way too small, grooves slugged at .3265-.327, bore at .319.  Still kept them on a paper plate at 100yds. Fun though!!

Mike

Mike
Forgot to mention this--  If the rifle you are calling a No. 4 has a cast action, it is not a No. 4.   A No. 4 Perfection would have had a milled action.
Phil

I once owned a #2 with that type of lever, believe it or not it was a 44 WCF, of course the barrel looked like the inside of a mine shaft-i had it bored out for 45-70(this was 30 years ago, and i'm knew nothing of cast actions).It shot fine, but i never used it with anything but GOEX FFG black powder and 405 grain bulllets.You must rebember this was the days before re-lining, today i'd have it relined for the same cartridge. Finally the rifle shot a little loose, so i sold it. But it never blew-up on me. perhaps i was just lucky.But i never have used smokeless powder but once in a centerfire ballard, i don't own one any more, but if i did,i'd never use smokeless powder in it. All it takes is one mistake, my dad bluged a Remington Rolling Block Sporter barrel with a double-charge once, but the breech heald, and he was not hurt.

I'm not sure about the single trigger action, it might also be cast. But the current owner says he can shoot to near one hole groups at 100yds with it, so the trigger probably isn't too bad. I was hoping that it had a forged action to possibly rebarrel in a 40-63 ballard or something similar, but if not I guess I'll live with it. Sure looks like it is in top condition for the age. Supposedly is all original color and varnish??? Maybe the color is, but I would think the wood might have been refinished at some time. The breech block was jeweled when it was converted to rf, nice little touches, musta been done right.

Mike

The DST gun you thought was a #4 is a #2, but it's been fitted with a centerfire breechblock asembly, identifiable by the firing pin retaining screw. Reversible breechblock assemblies used on typical #2's had the screw below the pin location, so were much lower.
The Union Hills came in #8 or #9 configuration, so depending on which you have, it could have either single trigger, or DST's. #8's were DST, #9 were single trigger.
The wood on your #9(?) is not typical of a #9, but as mentioned, you could order what you wanted. The real key will be serial numbers! Marlin was super about serial numbering their parts. If it's all original it will have serial numbers matching on the two breechblock halves, the lever, buttplate, buttstock, forearm, barrel, and possibly a few other places. 
I'd guess the lever is a replacement, or donor, as nobody would order that basic lever on a Union Hill. Stocks look a bit shiny too, and either refinished, or another donor item if the numbers don't match. Union Hills were shooter's guns, and a few rare ones have extra grade wood, but it's the norm to have very plain wood, without the horn tip.
Vall

Thanks guys,

Here is a little more info. The straight grip rifle with the cast action has all matching #'s except for the barrel, the centerfire bb matches the action, matches the wood and buttplate.

I got more info from the seller on the pistol grip rifle, it too is a cast action with the three line address and only the forend hole on the front face.

On loads for these, the .38 XL was loaded with 38grains bp and I believe a about a 180 grain bullet, isn't that pretty comparable to the 32-40 with 35 to 40grains and 175 grain bullet. I know that pressures in the smaller bore will increase with smokeless, but will they be that different with bp.

Mike