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Normal Topic Ccasting Thermometers (Read 4835 times)
DonH
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Ccasting Thermometers
Apr 24th, 2007 at 9:37am
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Is this a valid test: to place a casting thermometer in boiling water to observe the reading obtained?

    I have in my possession three thermometers; 2 small industrial thermoters and 1 Lyman model (new). I unpackaged the new Lyman and placed in molten alloy. I got a wildly disparate reading from of the other two in my possession. The third gave a different reading yet. I considered then placed all three in a pot of water, brought it to a boil and read all. The Lyman read slightly under the 200 deg. F mark and one of the other two industrial type read 210 deg. The second industrial job read about 100 deg higher. I was able to adjust this thermometer to read 212 in the boiling water. 
    Going back to the lead pot I placed all three in the melt at the same time and observed. The Lyman now read 680 deg. The two thermometrs which both read 210/212 deg in water reaboth read 780 deg in the lead alloy. Which do I trust? Thoughts, observations, experiences?
  
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Dale53
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Re: Ccasting Thermometers
Reply #1 - Apr 24th, 2007 at 9:52am
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DonH;
I am not an authority on thermometers, however, my Lyman was so wildly inaccurate that I replaced it with a thermometer that I got from "The Antimony Man", Bill Ferguson.

Pure lead has a listed melting point. You might check that out (Google it) and of course, be sure that your "pure lead" is pure. Then bring some of the pure lead to up to melt temperature and measure the temperature.

Water only boils at 212 degrees at sea level. At higher elevations, it boils at a lower temperature. The 210 degrees you received is probably correct.

Dale53
  
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Asst
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Re: Ccasting Thermometers
Reply #2 - Apr 24th, 2007 at 11:22am
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If you checked the themometers today, with the Relitive Humidity at 50%, The ambiant atomospheric temperature at 64.9 degrees, the phase of the moon,  waning  And Casiopia at:
RA:      2h 52m      Decl:      58 18'
Altitude:      70 26'      Azimuth:      336 41'

At your elevation,  735' above sea level, and depending what angle you held your tongue, the three themometers were reading correctly, for the different positions you had them in the lead pot.

  
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trev
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Re: Ccasting Thermometers
Reply #3 - Apr 24th, 2007 at 11:53am
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I see it as sorta like certain other measuring tools. If you are using the same tool to measure all the time, you get a good relative comparison from batch to batch. You will doubtless, find that the temperature you cast at will vary a great deal from the temperature that someone else will find correct. 

Now, if you are having to, say, alloy the metal to have it melt at a particular temperature, to be confirmed by someone else... Then I would suggest a calibration approach using thermocouples and plotting of errors throughout the range of the temperatures that it requires.

FWIW the purveyors of inexpensive import tools often have a multimeter for sale that is set up to read a type K thermocouple. The one I have reads in celsius (make a conversion chart, or just use celsius) and will go to either 1400F or 1800f equivalent (not handy, cant check right now.)

Add a decent thermcouple probe to it and you can have an accurate measure of temperature if you feel the need.

Cheers
  Trevor Jones
  
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3sixbits
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Re: Ccasting Thermometers
Reply #4 - Apr 24th, 2007 at 12:58pm
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I have to vote for the Bill Ferguson Thermometer. Unless you want to pick-up something really neat from Grangers and for a heck of a lot more money. Stay with the one from Bill.
  
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Fred Boulton
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Re: Ccasting Thermometers
Reply #5 - Apr 24th, 2007 at 1:55pm
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I am intrigued. Exactly why do you need a thermometer? Am I missing something? After all, I've only been casting for 35 years.
Fred.
  
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3sixbits
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Re: Ccasting Thermometers
Reply #6 - Apr 24th, 2007 at 2:23pm
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Thermometers can make life a lot simpler for you. You can get a good idea of what metal you have by knowing the melting temp.                                                                                                
You can remove tramp with control of the temp and fluxig at the correct temp.                                                                                                
You can prolong the life of your equipment by casting at the lowest temp that makes the best bullets.                                                                                                            
  
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DonH
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Re: Ccasting Thermometers
Reply #7 - Apr 24th, 2007 at 6:04pm
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    I happened to be checking out a new electric pot and want to know how settings on the control correspond to actual temperatures. I don't use the thermometer very often, udually to verify alloy temps for my record keeping. I use a number of different moulds and some of them are pretty sensitive to temperatures they like to operate at. If another caster can use a one size fits all approach and get bullets to their satisfaction more power to them.
     I will recheck the Lyman but am inclined to think it matches that of Dale's experience as all three thermometers were at approximately the same depth in the melt when i took the readings. 100 degrees would be a lot of difference within the melted alloy.
  
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boats
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Re: Ccasting Thermometers
Reply #8 - Apr 25th, 2007 at 10:20am
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I use one and find it usefull in running my furnace.  It has 3 gas jets all adjustable and needs to be tweaked as you add metal or it gets empty. For alloying and cleaning up scrap lead I will run it hotter than when casting bullets. and sometimes cut it down to low levels when I have to leave it for awhile and don't want to cut off completely.

As far as accucary with the dial thermometers they are a compromise compared to mercury which is no doubt more accurate and more expensive.  Any of the dials are bi-metal and the less expensive ones cannot be calabrated. They get knocked out of kilter easy, I had a meat thermometer do that the other day. Checking it against boiling water is a good way to go but don't expect precesion.  That caught my meat thermometer before I ruined the pork shoulder.

I would just throw the 100 degree one away and use one of the others

Boats
  
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