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Sharps1874
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Distance vs. Bullet
Aug 30th, 2006 at 3:31pm
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What I would like to know is a four-part question. I shoot a Sharps 45-70, and my question is more towards that caliber and rifle. Keeping in mind the limitations of that rifle as in how much chamber pressure it will withstand, not to exceed 18,000. Also keeping in mind that we are talking about a rifle with a 18-1 twist, and my rifle has a 30” barrel. And I’m only requesting information on lead bullets. 

Granted, there is a difference between smokeless and black powder with the various bullet weights, and perhaps the content of the lead bullet to include it’s shape. Yes, I know that there may be variations on whether a bullet is crimped, how much powder is in the case, the use of a filler,  to include the type of powder…as in a slow to fast burning powder. Primers can also make a difference. I’m just looking for a ballpark figure for a variety of bullets and how far they are good for. I don’t wish to make this too complicated. 

First Question:

I’m interested in knowing the distance limitations that the 405 grain bullet, the 420 grain bullet, the 480 grain bullet, the 510 grain bullet, the 535 grain Postell bullet, the Paul Jones 570 grain bullet limitations are per how far they are good for. I’m interested in bullet weights in the 400 grains and up, that will shoot 200 yards and farther. 

Second Question:

What lead bullets are recommended for the following distances?
200 yds, 300 yds, 400 yds, 500 yds, 800 yds, 1,000 yds, 1,500 yds, and beyond 1,500 yds.

Third Question:  

How much of a difference does it matter, per distance on whether you use BP or SP? Will BP put a bullet out farther then WP? 

Fourth Question:

What Muzzle Velocities and chamber pressures are we looking at for the distances from 200 yards to at least 1,500 yds? 


Are there any links that I can go to that would answer any of my 4 questions? I’ve done some searching on the internet to find this information out, no success. 
  
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Brent
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Re: Distance vs. Bullet
Reply #1 - Aug 30th, 2006 at 3:45pm
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Even with all your caveats, I don't think there is a good single answer to any of your questions w/o adding a lot other caveats such as - well which one works best empirically?   

Q1 - A 405 and 420 might work for you but I find anything shorter than a 450gr bullet to be pretty hard to work accurately in an 18 twist rifle.  But I shoot a bit faster than your .45-70 more than likely.  A slow rifle might make it work.  Otherwise I would say the 480 or 510 might be okay.  Impossible to tell w/o actually shooting them.  But I'd put my money on the 535 Postell.  The 570 may be too long to stabilize in your 18 twist.  Especially at ranges longer than a few hundred yds.  Again, ymmd

Q2 - I'd recommed the 535 for all of them.  But I don't think your .45-70 will be able to really stabilize any of them with accuracy out to 1500 or beyond.  Tthat's out of your rifle's class.  And you may have trouble even being allowed on the line in a long range match 800-1000 yds depending on the rules and your exact loads.

Q3 - Does the bullet really know what powder launched it?  Once it clears the muzzle it is on its own.  No, BP will not put a bullet out further than SP.  Physics are not specific to gunpowder.

Q4 - If you can't get 1300 fps (which you almost certainly will not) with the 535 postell, forget about 1500 yds.  What muzzle velocities are best are those that you find to be most accurate.  Shoot and find out.  The pressures are whatever they are.   

In short, take the 535 load it with a full case of whatever your favorite powder is and have at it.  My guess is that you will be in the sub 1200fps range, and will get very good accuracy out to 800 yds or so.  After that, you are going to have to do some fooling around to get the .45-70 to be sufficiently accurate and meet match requirements.   

Brent

PS.  When it comes to distances beyond 600 yds, I'm empirically deprived.
  
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MartiniBelgian
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Re: Distance vs. Bullet
Reply #2 - Aug 30th, 2006 at 4:33pm
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I'll second Brent on most of it, but I can add a bit of 45-70 experience:  my current max. load for the case is 80grs of powder behind a 520gr bullet, moving along at about 1260 fps.  The bullet shank on my bullet is shorter than  that of the postell, so you would probably be around 1200-1230fps with the Postell (with somewhere between 70-75grs of BP)
it will work out to a 1,000, but 1,500 seems a bit too much though - at least to get there with accuracy.
There's one golden rule here though - go with a heavy bullet that shoots accurately, and chances are that you will have both a good midrange load/bullet, as well as a long range combination.  The Postell is indeed a good starting point.
  
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Sharps1874
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Re: Distance vs. Bullet
Reply #3 - Sep 12th, 2006 at 12:12am
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Brent,

          I have shot all of the following with my Sharps, the 405, 420, 480, 510, and the 535 Postell. My bullet moulds are the Lyman 405 making 420s with it, and I have the Lyman 535 Postell. All of the bullets that I mentioned shoot ok with my rifle. The 420 and the 535s shoot the best thus, which is why I chose to buy the bullet moulds for them. I have found stable loads for all of the mentioned bullets, better with the 420 and the 535s. I’ve heard what the 420s are ideal for the 200 yard shots. The 570 is not that much longer then my 535…I think that it will work well…just will not know how well until I get the mould and shoot that bullet. I wish that I knew someone that had some of those bullets for me to try before I buy the mould. I’m currently using 20:1 Lead. I do have some 30:1 and 25:1; lead to try out later. I’ve heard that the 20:1 was a good one to start with. Both my 420s and my 535s have a MV in the mid 1300s fps. I have a load for my 535 that I increased by ½ grain of powder that I’ll be shooting at the range this Wednesday. Just wanted to see what affect the ½-grain increase would do for me, and to see if I start to lead with it…it should put me in the low to mid 1400 fps. I would bet that you are right on the money with the 535s being my all purpose bullet. I have a long range shoot that I’m going too weather permitting in late October in Nevada. Shooting from 200 yards out to 800 yards and perhaps 1,000 yards. I shoot with a group of guys once a month at 200 yards and one of them has been shoot his Sharps at the Quigley without any problems. 

     Thanks for the simplicity of your answer to my third question. 

     As for your reply to my fourth question, I am able to reach the mid 1300s fps. I was trying to find out what bullet weights are most common that work at the long distances, and the various shorter ranges. You had some very good info that I do appreciate you taking the time to answer. 

MartiniBelgian,

     My question about the 1,500 yards did not mean that I had intended to shoot that distance, just wondered if it were with in my means with my rifle, I know that the 1.000 yards is, with the right bullet and load. I’m sure that both you and Brent are correct for me to stick with the 535 and that it being heavy would be more productive. 
« Last Edit: Sep 12th, 2006 at 12:18am by »  
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montana_charlie
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Re: Distance vs. Bullet
Reply #4 - Sep 14th, 2006 at 2:09pm
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Quote:
The 570 is not that much longer then my 535…I think that it will work well…just will not know how well until I get the mould and shoot that bullet.

Paul,
Perhaps you are 'comfortable' enough to pick up moulds at will, to look at their efficiency in your rifle.
I must remain 'thrifty'.  Therefore, I won't buy a mould which is likley to be unsuitable unless I have information from others which makes it pretty certain that I can succeed with it.

The 570 may be 'not much longer' than the Postell, but tenths of an inch make big differences in these heavier .45 bullets.

I have an NEI mould which casts their version of the Paul Jones Creedmoor bullet.  It is spec'd to throw a 540 grain slug, but mine produces 560's.
My .45-90 chamber has a 'standard' throat and leade, so I seat these bullets in the case with all grease grooves covered.  This places the front band against the rifling.
Because of the amount of case volume required to accept the rear end of this bullet, I have only dared to pack 80 grains of GOEX Cartridge under it...in my (longer than yours) .45-90 cases.  That charge does not exceed 1200 fps in my gun, with that bullet weight.

If you have a long throat, or if the 570 is designed to sit well up into the bore, you might get enough BP under it to shoot at the ranges you mentioned.  But, without one of those factors, you will likely be disappointed.

So, I thought I would pass my results on to you...in case you want to pass on that mould.
CM
  

Retired...twice.  Now, just raisin' cows and livin' on borrowed time.
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