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brayhaven
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building actions
Apr 9th, 2006 at 2:34pm
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Has Anyone here built (or seen one built) a falling block action from  scratch or from castings?  I'm thinking about it & have very little info.  Any info, links, direction, cautions, warnings or ridicule Roll Eyes etc. appreciated.
Greg
  
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Paul_F.
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Re: building actions
Reply #1 - Apr 9th, 2006 at 5:15pm
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At the risk of opening myself up to the same ridicule, I've ordered a set of castings from Frontier Armory to try my hand at fitting one up.

The only thing I can say for sure at this point is this; I'm in for a whole LOT of work!   

I would respectfully suggest buying and becoming passingly familliar with everything Frank De Haas has written on Single Shots. 
The titles I can think of off the top of my head are;
"Single Shot Rifles and Actions"
"More Singe Shot Rifles and Actions"
" A Potpourri of Single Shot Rifles and Actions" (er, something close to that).
"Designing and Constructing Single Shot Actions"
and
"Mr Single Shots Book of Rifle Plans".


Hope this helps!
Paul F.
  
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marlinguy
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Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

Re: building actions
Reply #2 - Apr 9th, 2006 at 8:05pm
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I'd sure never ridicule anyone who could undertake such a project! It's master machinist work, and I envy anyone capable of such a feat!
  
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Paul_F.
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Re: building actions
Reply #3 - Apr 9th, 2006 at 8:38pm
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I'm just a determined home shop machinist with a lathe and mill...
Time will tell whether or not I'm "Capable" or not  Grin

Paul F.
  
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brayhaven
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Re: building actions
Reply #4 - Apr 10th, 2006 at 8:30am
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At the risk of opening myself up to the same ridicule, I've ordered a set of castings from Frontier Armory to try my hand at fitting one up.

The only thing I can say for sure at this point is this; I'm in for a whole LOT of work!  


Hope this helps!
Paul F.


I  kind of figured that, Paul.  I'm a gunsmith (40 yrs) and have a basic small machine shop.  I've built ML locks and some other stuff, including lots of obsolete parts, but this would be the most ambitious undertaking.  I was wondering if it would be about as easy to start from scratch using one of the plans?  I don't knowe if I'll live long enough to read all that De Haas has written on single shots  Cheesy.  I do have his basic book & have read a couple others on loan.  Which action did you order?  I can't get them to answer an e-mail.  Contact info appreciated. Some of the designs I saw, look like more work than others.   
Greg
  
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Paul_F.
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Re: building actions
Reply #5 - Apr 10th, 2006 at 9:43am
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I ordered the D.S. Cole castings...  it has the fewest parts (by far), and seems the most straight forward to get fit up.

I think that starting with a casting set would be easier than from bar stock... that square hole part in particular.

He is awful slow in answering his email... be persistant! 

Sounds like you have more skills than I do, so I'm guessing you've got more than enough smarts to do good work.

Good luck to us both  Grin
Paul F.
  
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riflecountry
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Re: building actions
Reply #6 - Apr 10th, 2006 at 8:03pm
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I just finished a Hi-wall from a Rod Storie casting. Turned out  pretty good for my first Hi-wall. Very pleased. I have built several rifles in the past ,but all were the modern centerfire (bolt action) versions,so this was a new experience for me.
I have my own machine shop and 15 yrs as machinist and I have to say it is alot(!!!!) of work. But very enjoyable learning the ins and outs of the single shot action. I have a few pics of the work in progress --I might post them if I can figure out how.
  
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jfeldman
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Re: building actions
Reply #7 - Apr 10th, 2006 at 8:24pm
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I built a Hoch USA action a few years ago from the rough casting kit.  I have no formal training as a machinist or gunsmith, but 30 yrs as a mechanic.  I read Mr. James Howe's books from cover to cover and went at it slowly with dremel tool, files and sandpaper on a flat peice of steel.  I got help from friends on threading and fitting/chambering the barrel and drilling the holes for the scope mount. I made the stocks and rust blued all the parts myself.  It was a great deal of work, but probably the most satisfying project that I have ever undertaken,  especially when I found that it shot well to boot.  It sounds as if you are well equipped to do a project of this sort.  I wish I'd have known of this forum when I was working on mine.....so much expert help and advice so freely given is a treasure!  Best of luck!
Joe
  
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brayhaven
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Re: building actions
Reply #8 - Apr 10th, 2006 at 9:05pm
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I ordered the D.S. Cole castings...  it has the fewest parts (by far), and seems the most straight forward to get fit up.

Good luck to us both  Grin
Paul F.


Interesting,  That's the one I was contemplating too.  Have you received the parts yet?  I'd be interested to know how well they're cast.  I was thinking about an adjustable broach for the square holes.  I also have a die profiler that I've used a lot in interior work on actions.  Should be a help in cleaning up castings.
Thanks for the reply(s)
Greg
  
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Paul_F.
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Re: building actions
Reply #9 - Apr 10th, 2006 at 9:20pm
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I just got the set of Cole castings in the mail today... so Mr. Stanley of Frontier Armoury is indeed alive and well  Cheesy
Having the set in-hand has reinforced a few things about this project to me that were not 100% apparent by the pictures.

First, the Cole action is smaller than I expected. This is good... as my goal is a lightweight rifle (until I change my mind, anyway).

The casting set is not marked for hole locations except by some cast in dimples. It's going to be a challenge to get holes that need precise positioning located given I have no dimensional drawing for the Cole. In this respect, I would have been better off with a High Wall for which there is a wealth of dimensional information.

The surface of thec castings are a bit better than I had feared... they're not ready to blue or anything, but it's not going to take a huge amount of finishing.

The block mortice is visually nice and square, with small corner radii. It will take some finishing, but at first look, it looks like a nice fine cut file and some patience will finish it to size.

The hardest part for me to imagine at the moment is holding the trigger,  hammer, and such to drill the holes for the pins.  I'm sure I'll come up with something clever though  Grin

Now I just have to "Think twice, measure 3 times, THEN cut"...

To be 100% honest, someone REALLY good with a file could do most of the fitting. But I mean REALLY good. Pin locations and threading the barrel tenon probably will prove the most challenging.

Paul F.
  
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Paul_F.
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Re: building actions
Reply #10 - Apr 10th, 2006 at 9:25pm
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You type faster than I do... When I started, your post wasn't there  Grin
I think I managed to answer your questions, more or less by accident..

Paul F.
  
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leadball
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Re: building actions
Reply #11 - Apr 11th, 2006 at 2:29pm
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   Gentleman;
                  Do the castings have the barrel threads cut in the receiver--since screw holes might be hard to locate, would an action such as the Ballard be eaiser because there's only maybe only one screw [finger lever] that would be critical.   leadball
  
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riflecountry
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Re: building actions
Reply #12 - Apr 11th, 2006 at 2:54pm
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No--at least my Hi-wall didn't have the barrel threads. I also found that some of the dimensions on the print were to be taken with a grain of salt. Double-check the fit of everything first. Most of the dimensions got me pretty close, but not all.
  
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Paul_F.
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Re: building actions
Reply #13 - Apr 11th, 2006 at 3:36pm
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leadball;
The Cole casting I have does not have the barrel threads cut. There's a hole, but no threads. 

Riflecountry is lucky... he had at least SOME sort of print... the Cole doesn't come with one Cheesy   

The Cole has the fewest parts of any of the action sets they carry. By a whole bunch!  Three cross pins through the reciever (one is pre-cast in and easy to locate for reaming), one through the block.
I don't think any other set would be less work, or much easier. 
But, I have been known to be wrong before... quite often, in fact.

Paul F.
  
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hst
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Re: building actions
Reply #14 - Apr 11th, 2006 at 6:57pm
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Gentlemens:

I can offer a suggestion or two on where to start on these actions.  The most critical part of an action is the relationship of the breech block mortise and action face to the barrel threads. The first thing you need to do is to establish the barrel threads. Find some clever way to set up the action in the lathe so the block mortise is as square and perpendicular as possible.  Now bore the hole for the barrel threads. This hole should be finished with a single point tool so you know it is true to your setup. 

It would be best to single point the thread,  but you can use a tap if you are careful to start it true. In the same setup, face off the action face true to the barrel threads.

Next you should turn a piece of round stock into a barrel stub. Cut the thread to a square shoulder (like a barrel would be fit) to fit the action threads and, without removing the piece,  turn a straight section on the barrel stub that is true to the threads.


Screw this stub into the action and you now have a handle on the action that is true to the barrel threads and can be used in all the future setups. THe next thing I would do is to set the action up square in a V block using the barrel stub and find some friendly shop with a wire EDM to cut the block mortise. This would be well worth the price of admission and will assure that the mortise is square to the barrel threads.

Glenn Fewless



  
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