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DonH
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Permalyn
Dec 20th, 2005 at 8:01am
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Can someone tell me what sort of finish this product yields? I have a repro rifle with a pathetic finish on the wood and wish to refinish it. I want a finish with a low luster or satin finish or maybe an or maybe something that looks like an oil finish. Durability is important. 
The wood in question is light-colored American walnut to which I would like to add some color. Any recommendations as to stains What about Pilkington's? I would like to end up with a period look.

Don
  
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First_Shirt
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Re: Permalyn
Reply #1 - Dec 20th, 2005 at 8:59am
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Don,

I've used Permalyn on several rifle stocks, and like the finish very much.  You can finish it up at whatever level of gloss you desire, for either a built-up, varnish look, or a flat, satin finish.

I like to start with about 3 coats of their sealer, brushed on the sanded, whiskered wood.  Just be sure to wipe out any excess from the inletting recesses, and seal under the buttplate, inside the barrel channel, and everywhere else.  Then I "wet sand" the finish with wet-dry paper, starting at 320 grit.  This will make a "slurry" of wood dust and finish...wipe this cross-grain with a paper towel, and allow it to dry for a couple of days.  Then another sanding to level the surface out, and see how well the pores in the wood are filling.  You may have to repeat the procss several times to fill all the grain on porous wood.   

When the grain is filled, start rubbing in very thin coats by hand.  I like to wet sand between about every 2-3 coats with increasingly fine grits of paper...400-800 or so, to keep the finish level.  I use the Permalyn thinned 100% with mineral spirits for all wet-sanding.  Wipe off all sludge with a paper towel, as you go.  After the last 2 or 3 coats, you will have a level, very glossy finish that looks great as-is, or you can cut it back for less gloss.

For a less glossy look, I'll carefully (don't want to completely cut through the finish) wet sand one last time with 600 or 800 grit paper, then hand rub the finish with Brownell's rubbing compound, and finish up with a few coats of Johnson's paste wax.   

Permalyn is a very durable finish, as well, if you plan on hunting with your rifle.

Greg
  
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Re: Permalyn
Reply #2 - Dec 20th, 2005 at 10:01am
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I have used permalyn on a few muzzleloaders with curly maple and  have been pleased with the results.  I bought a finish kit from Brownells by African Express.  It is called old english stock finish.  I was very pleased with the results I obtained on a highly figured piece of english walnut.  The look is like the products name, an old english finish.  I have also used some of the stains by Laurel Mountain Forge and have had good results with them, sometimes blending different ones to obtain the desired color.  As with first shirts finish, which is an excellent on  It takes time to get a guality finish.  I spent about two months on the english finish.  It was worth it.
  
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JDSteele
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Re: Permalyn
Reply #3 - Dec 20th, 2005 at 10:13am
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I've been using Permalyn for ~20-25 yrs, since it was called John Bivins' Express Oil Finish. Obviously I like it. Have used just the 'sealer' (many many many coats) with a final polish for a soft eggshell-like glow and also on other stocks have added the 'finish' for a more glossy look. I used the original Bivins application technique which Greg described very well. After sealing, count upon about 2-4 coats of sanded-&-rubbed-slurry finish to fill juglans regia (French, English, Circassian, Turkish, Himalayan or whatever Walnut) and about 4-7 coats to fill any other type walnut (Black, Claro, Bastogne, etc)

Two important caveats. When rubbing off the slurry with paper towels, rub ACROSS the grain only! Rubbing with the grain tends to pull the soft finish out of the pores and has made me REALLY tight in the jaw a couple of times, whereas rubbing across the grain tends to scrape the slurry off into the pores which is where you want it to be, for filling purposes.

And make sure that all previous applications of whatever liquid have dried completely before applying the next whatever liquid. Have found that this is especially important with the Pilkington stains. In my part of the country, the Deep South, this means several weeks between coats. A finish that hasn't dried and hardened to the max will eventually sink down into the pores & look uneven, especially with Black Walnut.

When I lived in CO, drying between coats took 1-2 days. Here in MS it takes 2-4 weeks.

Stockwork really gives me a pain compared to metalwork, but it's gotta be done. And I've never known any smith to be completely satisfied with any stock finish, period, stop, end of discussion. So if you're looking for the magic solution that'll end all your finishing problems, lotsa luck 'cause you'll need it, there ain't no short cuts! But Permalyn IMO is one of the better products out there.
Good luck, Joe
  
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DonH
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Re: Permalyn
Reply #4 - Dec 20th, 2005 at 11:06am
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Not lookin for magic Joe, just a product that will give me what I want. I'm a natural-born skeptic and 35 years of woodworking have taught me that most of the time quicker is just quicker.
  
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marlinguy
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Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

Re: Permalyn
Reply #5 - Dec 22nd, 2005 at 10:01pm
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I use just the sealer. I've never even tried the finish, as I love the results of the sealer alone. I apply about 4 coats, until the wood soaks it up. Then I wet sand in about 8-10 coats. My Hepburn project has 12 coats on it, with 8 of them wet sanded. Buffed lightly when done, and rubbed with MinnWax paste 60 days later.

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bluesteel45
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Re: Permalyn
Reply #6 - Dec 23rd, 2005 at 1:35am
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nice looking rig marlinguy!! like the finish too. i've used permalyn numerous times with good results. have gone in more recent times to a product known as "waterlox" tung oil sealer/finish. it's really great stuff....has driers like permalyn, gives a nice, durable finish when applied as mentioned above...john bivins style...... Merry christmas everyone, may santa fill your stockings with swiss powder and lead....blue Grin
  
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DonH
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Re: Permalyn
Reply #7 - Dec 23rd, 2005 at 5:33am
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Marlinguy;
The picture is worth a thousand words. That is about the look I want, however I get there. Thanks.
  
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marlinguy
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Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

Re: Permalyn
Reply #8 - Dec 23rd, 2005 at 7:01pm
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Thanks Blue! I'll have to give that waterlox a try. Where do you get it?
The Hepburn "project" rifle is a parts gun. The only original thing left is the complete action. Barrel, and stocks are new. Dave Crossno cut the stocks to my specs, and I did the metal prep, before sending the parts to Dale Woody for engraving, casehadening, and rust bluing.
  
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bluesteel45
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Re: Permalyn
Reply #9 - Dec 23rd, 2005 at 9:26pm
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a number of good quality hardware stores here in pennsylvania carry waterlox tung oil sealer /finish or just the tung oil finish. i think woodcraft catalog carries it also. shouldn't be too hard to find though....about $15.00 for a pint......$45.00 a gallon..........hope you like it. if you look it up online, "WATERLOX" is the brand name...out of wisconsin, i believe. if your search proves fruitless, PM me and i'll point you in the right direction or obtain it for you.....blue.....merry christmas Smiley
  
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