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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Barrel lengthening? (Read 23830 times)
marlinguy
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Barrel lengthening?
Dec 18th, 2005 at 5:55pm
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I was told that there are folks who can add length to a barrel, by welding more on, and then relining the barrel. Anyone heard of this, and who might do such work?
I have a chance to buy a Rem. Hepburn in .40-2 1/2, with double set triggers, and a heavy barrel, but it's been cut to 22", so I'm wondering if it can be saved, or if I will end up rebarreling it.
Thanks,
Vall
  
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hst
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Re: Barrel lengthening?
Reply #1 - Dec 18th, 2005 at 7:47pm
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Vall:

That is pretty interesting idea. A guy would hate to pass up a Hepburn action for any reason. Lemmee know if you decide to pass on it.

I don't see why this could not be done. The biggest hurdle would be the barrel steel. You would be best served to use another period barrel as a donor or you would likely see the change in the bluing. This could perhaps be disguised to a degree by making the barrel half round and putting the joint at the transition.

For that matter you could make it a mechanical joint at the transition with a wedding band to disguise it. 

I guess it all depends if the marking on the original barrel are desirable enough to be worth all the trouble. This certainly would cost more than a new barrel.

Interesting idea though....

Regards,

Glenn
  
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bluesteel45
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Re: Barrel lengthening?
Reply #2 - Dec 18th, 2005 at 8:31pm
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give bob hoyt a call in east berlin. penna. i know he's done this before, then lined with a t.j.'s or liner of his own manufacture......his # is...717-642-6696....blue
  
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ssdave
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Re: Barrel lengthening?
Reply #3 - Dec 18th, 2005 at 8:42pm
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Val,

I don't know what condition of rifle you're trying to recreate.  I have an original, very heavy, hepburn 45-70 barrel.  It is 30 1/4 inches long, nearly 1 1/4 inch at the breech.  Markings are clear, sight dovetails are good, and threads are excellent.  That's the best you can say for the barrel.  It has an old, brown rust exterior with pits and roughness.  The bore is non-existent.  I was going to bore it out to .50-70 some day.

If it would get you closer to where you want to be, lets talk and I can take some pictures for you.   

It was going to go onto ebay this week or next, along with about 25 other takeoff barrels I have.  I'll hold onto it at least for another week.

dave
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Barrel lengthening?
Reply #4 - Dec 19th, 2005 at 11:58pm
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Glenn,
If I can negotiate a price on the Hepburn, it will be based on what it needs. The gun is a very nice piece overall, and I'd live with the 22" barrel, if I can't get it done. It's a complete gun, so I sure hate to do a full rebarrel, unless it was with an original. 
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Barrel lengthening?
Reply #5 - Dec 20th, 2005 at 12:00am
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Bluesteele, 
Thanks for the info. I'll call him, and see what he can do. I have an old Ballard takeoff barrel in .45-70 that might be good for this, as it's no good for anything else! At least the steel is from the same era.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Barrel lengthening?
Reply #6 - Dec 20th, 2005 at 12:05am
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dave,
I think your barrel sounds like the best option, if it's not too pitted on the outside. I could have it relined to the original .40-70 Sharps Straight. I wish I could say I will have this wrapped up in a week! I'm dealing with a friend who is trying to sell this gun for his neighbor. They thought it was worth a couple hundred dollars, and I offered many times that price, because I didn't want to take advantage of them. I'm waiting for his neighbor's response. Hopefully I haven't scared them off with too high an offer? You know how that can go!
  
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ssdave
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Re: Barrel lengthening?
Reply #7 - Dec 20th, 2005 at 1:20am
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Val,

I'll take pictures in the next couple of days and send them to your email.  It has a fair amount of pitting, hard to tell how bad it is, as the old rust blue is still there in most part, just turned to brown rust.  I should be able to take good pictures that will tell the story better than my description.   

I was going to lengthen the threads and fit it to a rolling block (same thread, just longer) but that would have put the address into the thread tenon, so probably be best to return it to it's original type action instead.

dave
  
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hst
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Re: Barrel lengthening?
Reply #8 - Dec 20th, 2005 at 1:29am
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Vall:

I agree, Dave's barrel is the best option if it is in a similar condition to the rest of the rifle. I dunno if I could live with a 22" barrel myself.  However, it should make for some impressive muzzle blast and a dandy fireball.  Best of luck to you on the project.

And good luck in your negotiations. Remember, no good deed goes unpunished.

Glenn
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Barrel lengthening?
Reply #9 - Dec 20th, 2005 at 7:21pm
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Thanks guys!
  
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is0086s
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Re: Barrel lengthening?
Reply #10 - Dec 22nd, 2005 at 11:28am
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There is a letter in the November / December 1999 SSRJ from Norman Johnson of Turtle Lake ND describing how he has lengthened barrels by welding and relining.
  
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JDSteele
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Re: Barrel lengthening?
Reply #11 - Dec 22nd, 2005 at 12:07pm
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FYI: I have seen, with my own eyes, a Winchester pump rifle that had multiple holes in both the receiver and barrel that were then welded up and refinished. I saw this rifle both before and after the repair, with my own eyes, up close and personal. I'm so nearsighted that my focal range is about 4 inches, so I got a really good up-close look. And then I looked again with my 10x machinist's magnifying glass.

Now I don't consider myself to be any kind of a Winchester expert, but I've closely examined many and many an old antique gun, have refinished more than a few myself, and am very familiar with the various appearances of both original and refinished arms surfaces. I used to think that I could spot a refinish job under ANY conditions, ANY time, ANYwhere, but I wuz wrong!

This repair job was absolutely undetectable by my eyes. The color, the surface finish & polish marks under magnification, the very TEXTURE of the finish matched perfectly. I say it matched perfectly, and I don't use that word lightly.

I don't know who did the work since it's a closely guarded secret (literally!), but I now know that it IS possible to perfectly match the finish on a reweld or reblue job. It was totally amazing to me, I would have sworn that it couldn't be done, but the evidence was right there in front of me.

Two purposes for this diatribe: one, a good match for the proposed barrel extension is indeed possible, and two, I've concluded that there are probably a LOT more refinished guns out there than we've suspected before.

Have literally never known anyone who could spot a refinish as quickly as I could, but I sure couldn't spot this one! Joe
  
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marlinguy
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Ballards may be weaker,
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Re: Barrel lengthening?
Reply #12 - Dec 22nd, 2005 at 9:46pm
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I've thought about contacting Norman, as he's darn good at barrel work. Still awaiting the Hepburn, or at least some word on it.
Joe,
I couldn't agree more! I think we'd all be surprised at how many refinished guns are out there! If we weren't so against the idea of refinishing, it wouldn't have to stay such a big secret! Seems that the British accept refinishing as a fact of life, and don't care a bit. The folks who do it well should be proud of their work, but instead they hide in dark shops, and nobody tells us who they are.
Vall
  
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ssdave
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Re: Barrel lengthening?
Reply #13 - Dec 22nd, 2005 at 11:59pm
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Val,

I'll send you some pictures tonight jof the barrel if I don't fall asleep first.   

On the refinish issue, it's interesting that these "anonymous hermits" are about.  I made the brief acquaintance of one about 3 or 4 years ago.  I bought a bunch of parts from him because he was desparate for cash to pay living expenses.  He showed me some work he had in progress, and a recent flyer from one of the major auction houses that had one of his pieces.  It was consigned from one of the big names in antique winchesters.  He stated that that particular arm had been in his shop in the past 6 months, and had gone directly from him to the dealer to the auction house.  It brought a 5 figure sum.  He had been paid about $500 for the work.  It had come to him as a "gray gun" with a good bore.  It went back out as a 95% gun with careful wear.   

The interesting thing about all this to me is the deceptive mentality of the practitioners.  I do some work myself, and think I have a grasp of the labor involved.  He made maybe $10 per hour on the gun.  The dealer probably had $1500 in it when it was completed.  It returned his investment 10 fold.

The workman is capable of top class work.  If he was to sell his services as a top gun mechanic, his pieces would sell up there with the likes of Shiloh, Lone Star, Meacham, etc.  Instead, he lives in near poverty in a backwater, is reclusive, and does questionable work for people who take advantage of the situation to make large profits.  And, he's proud of his work when he talks to someone who understands the skill involved.

Have a wonderful Christmas, all.

dave
  
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Voyageur
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Re: Barrel lengthening?
Reply #14 - Jan 17th, 2006 at 11:18pm
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Speaking about this sort of work gives me mixed feelings all over again.  I once had a fella approach me and ask me to do a conversion on an action which would allow him to own a rifle that was considerably rare.  I accomplished the required milling, installed the barrel so that the markings were in the correct position and returned the action.

It just so happened that I walked into his shop to get some more specifics on another project he wanted me to do.  Foolishly he showed me the finished first project.  The wood was original and fit correctly which I didn't find particularly remarkable.  What was remarkable was the finish. He had worked out a method by which he was able to exactly duplicate an original vintage Winchester finish.  Taken altogether, you could not distinguish the rifle from an original.  I had thought from the start that it was for his private collection and he was restoring a 'shooter'.  I went back to my shop to mull on this.

Later in the week he approached me with another action to modify.  I reluctantly took in the action but did not put it into the mill.  Instead, I thought about it for a couple of days.  Finally, I realized that this was a path I did not care to walk and I returned the action and never, ever did work for him again.  I've always wondered where that rifle ended up and I feel guilty that I was part of the operation.  I'm no angel but it always seemed to me that integrity was supposed to be self imposed.

I know there is a fine line near the 'restoring' issue and that it is incumbent on the seller to make it clear what the buyer is purchasing.  I am not a believer in "Let the buyer beware".

A year or two later I was approached by a major arms collector who is nationally known.  His arguement was that, since the firearm is being put together with original factory parts, the firearm is not a fake.  Couldn't do it.  Do you guys have any opinions about this last approach?
  
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