Joe

We are of a like mind on the speed clocks.  It's good to know how fast your bullet is going but other than that not much meaningfull information is produced by all the calculations.

Thing that always struck me was the velocity is taken so close to the muzzle while I was intrested in performance 200 yards or more out.   

A bullet could leave the muzzle pretty consistent but according to many factors could be considerably different as it arrives at the target.  Those factors are mostly bullet related while the cronograph measures mostly ignition and burn factors. The least likely things to affect accuracy.

Boats

  Well, for people who have their minds made up it's probably not much sense talking about it. But for those wanting to know a little about their usefulness, here goes.

  I think we can all agree that what Joe says about SD's to 2 places are not the best criteria. They are only a small part of what makes a good load. But I disagree that this figure is completely useless.

  I think we can all agree to that without a low SD/ES there is no possibilty of accuracy. The chronograph is useful in finding these loads.

   I think we can all agree that we have all shot those very small groups that can never be duplicated, yet we keep trying, proving that the definition of insanity is alive and well. 

  A chronograph helps us separate out these factors, by showing us that that "fluke" group was just that by showing large SD/ES's. I have NEVER seen a load with an SD of 50 or 60 that would shoot well consistently, but have seen many loads under 10 that would.

  A chronograph is not a panacea, and like Boats says, it only gives the results of internal ballistics. But, you also have to remember without low SD/ES's at the muzzle there is no possibility you will get small groups at any range.

  Personally I feel a chronograph has saved me a tremendous amount of time and money by showing me immediately which loads might work and those that don't have a chance at all. Then further testing of the good loads over the chronograph will show me which of several will be best.

  The other side of the coin is to use Statistical Analysis, which if you followed that thread a while back, will show you that to reach a great deal of certainty you need to fire a great number of shots. A chronograph will show you in ten shots or less.

Dick,

  I haven't done any chronographing at 200 yds. but have done a little at 100 yds. while determining BC's. Will be doing so this Spring with the .40/65 and a friends .40/70.

  Here's a some more points to consider....

  We know that barrel vibration has a lot to do with accuracy. If the SD/ES's are to large then you'll get dispersion. So the closer you can get these figures, with accuracy, the less you'll have. This is very important the further out you go and I've read where Shilouette and Long Range shooters like to keep their SD's under 10. In Schuetzen I figure I want my SD's as close to 5 or under as I can get. In this way when you hit the right load the bullet will exit the barrel at very close to the same point in the vibration cycle. Preferably at the top or bottom of the swing where there will be a fraction of a seconds pause.

  Then we have the point about rifle ranges. It's pretty well established that you SHOULD do your load testing at the distances you want to shoot at. I will imagine everyone on here has easy access to at least a 100 yd. range or they wouldn't be shooting much at all. About five minutes for me to get to one. What about 200 yds.? They're kinda scarce. Mine is about 35 minutes away. Shilouette shooters need 500 meters, and LR shooters need up to 1000 yds. Now you're getting to where there are mighty few of them around. I'm lucky in that these are about 45 minutes away, but the last I heard you can't just go there anytime you want to. Only during match days.

  So.... A chronograph used at your local range will do two things. One, give you a muzzle and downrange velocity so you can figure BC, and with the MV you can plot trajectories and sight settings so you can be reasonably close to the target when you do get up there. And, of course, as mentioned previously, get you a selection of loads to try when you do get a chance to go.

  Then when we do get to that extended range we have to deal with wind and mirage. Unless you're a top wind & mirage reader.... which I'm not..... how do you know that the loads you're working up are really showing you what they can do? At least with the chronograph you'll have several loads to try that you know should work. Without an experts knowledge of wind & mirage reading, and how to apply it, you could spend a whole Summer trying to figure out which load MIGHT be the best.

  KWK,

Good points. Didn't think of that angle, but you're right!

  So Joe..... There's some opinions for you, but like a certain anatomical feature we all have, everyone has one...... Opinion that is!  I don't expect this to change your mind, but might give some a better understanding of why a chronograph is not really necessary, but sure is a handy tool to have. I've had one, or another brand, for going on 40 yrs. and would say it's saved me their cost many times over.

PETE

John,

Before I got my chronograph, I considered my self a reloader.  I loaded what the books told me was a safe load and I shot it to see how accurate it might be.  When I got my chronograph, I felt that I had become a handloader because now I could get information that the books couldn't give me.  Are they really necessary?  I guess the answer to that question depends upon how much you want to learn.

feather

One other point about chronographs is that I have found different brand primers are not necessarily the same hardness.  When you have a velocity to compare various loads and now you are contemplating a slightly flatter primer with a given load; was it a higher pressurre load or a softer primer material, or both?   
keep on hav'n fun!

I do not have a chronograph - not within my desire to know exactly how fast a load is going.  (Although I did borrow one once.)

BUT, being a test engineer, and having had 6 or 7 graduate level courses in statistics, I know the value of instrumentation.

Simply knowing that the variation in velocity is large or small is good enough - especially in comparison to MY variability, when going for very small groups - control of both are necessary.  Measuring allows one to get that control.

Coupled with a strain gauge, one can develop highest speed loads with known pressures.

Do I get small groups, yes.  Can I do better, yes.  Do I persue it, obviously not.  Pennies as targets at 100 yards are OK, asprins are not.  Minute of beer-can accuracy is a more useful measure to me than MOA.

My main use is for BP shooting - I don't have the luxury of  longer ranges to do my load development, but I do like to shoot LR...  So I test my loads both for accuracy and MV at 100m.
When a load gives me :
- good group
- good ES
- high enough MV
I do consider that load good for LR shooting - without chrono, I was just guesstimating MV's (like from the rifle's recoil  ), but now I KNOW where I am - that makes a lot of difference.
Another instance is shooting a .30-20 with a 150gr spire point bullet - try finding those in the loading manuals....

So yes, I do consider them quite useful indeed.  Now OTOH if you're shooting .22lr, you might go without...