Ok friends, my daughter is expecting a baby boy in May and this soon to be Grandpa ( for the first time! ) is gonna start making him a rifle. I was thinking about #2 or #4 Rolling Block converted to center fire and chambered in .25-21 Stevens. Shotgun butt, oct. bbl. Whaddya think? Any other ideas? What would you put together? Let's have fun and get creative here.

Scott

Longrider,

  Can't say I'd do much different than what you want to do. If you think the .25 cal. is the way to go I don't think you can do any better than the .25/21 you're purposing. It's supposed to be the best of that caliber class. With Ken putting on some engraving it ought to be one humdinger of a rifle!

PETE

All young boys & girls ought to have a good single shot as a first rifle, and I pray that Colton's grandpa gets to spend many years shooting with him.  I taught my sons and now my grandson with a couple of Winder muskets, and that brings me to an observation and a question.

First my observation.  Before kids (or anyone else) become familiar with guns, they have been exposed to a bunch of horror stories about recoil and tend to be somewhat shy of anything bigger than a .22.  Over the years, I have suggested to 4 different kids that maybe it was time to move from the .22 to my .32-20 low wall, and all 4 viewed the jump with a lot of fear.  So Colton's grandpa has a major education job ahead of him.  Now my questions.   

First, how old should a normal kid be before he or she is allowed to shoot?  That the shooting should be strictly supervised is a given.   

Second, how much ammunition should you expect to burn up teaching the basics; pointing and "aiming", trigger control, sight pictures, etc.?  I am just starting the 3rd brick of .22 shorts with the Winder musket for my grandson, and he is beginning to get a pretty firm grasp of the idea, but it took a lot of patience and a lot of tolerance for what looks like plinking.

FWIW, seems to me that along with building the rifle, a lot of effort should be put into casting good bullets & putting them away for future educational projects.  Same goes for cartridge cases.  Will we be allowed such things when Colton is 12?  Will RMC still be in business?  And powder & primers.  Remember the problems getting primers a few years back? Colton needs a hope chest full of goodies to go along with the rifle.

Longrider:

It obvious we have a dilema here. The .25-21  on a Remington #2 would be great. I recently obtained .25-21 on a 44.5 action and I can't wait until the glaciers recede so I can play with it.  As for the barrel,  I understand that Green Mountain is going to make a limited run of .25 barrels in #2 Winchester tapered octagon. You might want to get in line.

Howsomever, Dale is right.  A .22 rf is the ideal place for a young one to start. A light rifle and lots of ammo is the secret. Can't beat a .22 for that.

Fortunately I am here to solve this conundrum. I like the .25 caliber #2 but it is abit much of a gun for a youngster. Shucks, he will have to be all of 5 or 6 years old before he can handle it. What's he gonna do 'til then?

Build him a #4 in .22 rf  to start with and then get working on the #2 for when he is ready.

No thanks necessary, it is all part of the job...

Glenn

Guys, I'm thinking a #2 taper barrel might be a tad heavy for a boy's rifle...how about one of the barrels GM makes for lever action rifles?  I think they're 26" long, and taper from .875 to .750 or so, and are available in both .22 and .25 calibers.

I'm gathering parts for the same project, my little Grandpa's buddy will be 4 in June.  At the rate I work, the rifle might be finished by the time he's old enough to shoot it....

Scott, I'd be happy to donate a stockfitting to your project...heck, if you find a No. 2 action, I even have a pattern that might be persuaded to work.

Greg Pennell

Well, if you can't find a good low-wall action to build it on... 8)

Actually, if I were doing this project, I would look very hard at the slick side low-wall action and the little pistol weight lever gun barrel from Grn Mtn mentioned previously.  I would chamber it in the more-commonly available .25-20 repeater (WCF) so the kid could have LOTS of brass, teach him to cast bullets, buy Unique and primers in bulk, and tell the kid, "Here...wear this out!"

I have that very project in the works now except with a "grownup sized" stock and in .25-20 SS which I DON'T advise you try at home (I am a professional -  ) and it looks 'way cool with the "tulip" at the breech end made possible by Grn Mtn's grinding technique on that barrel...I highly recommend this barrel for a small shooter or if the rifle will be carried a lot.

I just wish MY grandfather had built this rifle for me about 55 years ago!   

Regards,
Charlie the Frog

I started my grandson Zach off with a Wn High Wall in 32-40 when he was 12 years old.  He is very small yet but had no problem with IMR 4227 and a 198 grn bullet.  He won 1st place from the bench at 200 yards at Eau Claire in his first year,  This year he is moving to a Wn High Wall in 40-65 and a much bigger bullet.  He loves it!  One of these days he will get big enough to stand up an shoot like a man.

Ed Tilford

Works for me, I have heard good things about this little cart.   Ken

Scott,

  I did quite a bit of shooting with the .25 Hornet a few years back.

  It's the .22 Hornet case blown out to .25 cal. as you might have guessed.

  The only info I ever found....... admittedly I didn't look all that hard..... is in one of Ackley's  two vol. set of "Handbook for Shooters and Reloaders". Page 327 Vol. I.

  It's strictly a wildcat cartridge so you'd be pretty well on your own outside of Ackley's work. Not really an awful lot there. The only powder listed is for IMR 2400. with 8 & 11 gr. loads for the 60 gr. bullet, 6 & 10 grs. for the 86 grainer. MV's run from 1525 fps to 2035 for the 60 gr. & 955 to 1675 fps for the 86 gr., using the standard 1-16" twist.

  The case has a very shallow neck, similar to the .32/20, which makes it almost a straight case. Ackley says that a load of 12.0 grs. of 2400 and the 67 gr. bullet will give a MV of 2000 fps with very low pressures making it suitable for weak actions such as the Ballard.

  Never did any hunting with it, but it's more than accurate enuf for animals as small as head shots on Squirrels out to 100 yds. or so with hard cast bullets. I had mine set up on a Win. Low Wall. It's kind of my switch barrel gun, thus the "had". 

  If I can be of any other help let me know!

PETE

I have a friend who has a .22 K Hornet and had good results with lil' gun powder. How would this work? 

Scott

Little cases and big bullets (over 100 grains) can get you into trouble if the powder dispensing is not carefully done.
Pressure can spike very quickly.  I am talking .1 or  .2 tenths of a grain. Personal experience with a .25 Hornet.
mes

Ken, 

At your leisure sir. No rush, I know you're a busy man. We're in no hurry.

The Hepburn seater should be self explanatory but if you have any questions let me know. 

Have a fabulous day my friend!

God Bless!
Scott

Scott,

  Well, I'll fill you in on what I feel comfortable giving you. This is not meant as a slam on you, it's just I don't like giving out load data, especially for wildcat cartridges.

  What I was trying to do was see if I could get a .25 cal. set up something like the .32 Miller. A small case that would shoot a heavy bullet and a case full of powder.

  So, I set the gun up with a 1-10" twist, and had NEI make a custom GC bullet weighing 110 grs. Not sure what their current number is but I have it listed in an old catalog as #20. Worked real well, but then decided I wanted to use it in ASSRA competition so had the GC machined out, ending up with a bullet wgt. of about 117 grs.

  With that bullet I found that MV's in the 1250 to 1325 fps range gave the best accuracy, 1270 fps gives around 3/4" at 100 yds. and 1315 gives right at an inch. With this wgt. bullet, twist, and case I wasn't able to get BP to work at all well. Bullets tipped quite a bit at 100 & 200 yds. I'm not even sure if you used lighter bullets that you would get exceptable accuracy. The .25 Hornet is basically a smokeless powder cartridge.

  Later the barrel was chambered out to .25/20SS and with the 117 gr. bullet it would show serious tipping at 200 yds. with BP.  An original Ideal mould 257222 (90 grs) worked well enuf for Squirrel hunting at normal distances, but would tip slightly at 100 yds. with accuracy there and at 200 yds. not anything to write home about. With smokeless it shoots very well.

  The capacity for both cases when using BP is just not designed for any bullets over 75 to 80 grs. The .25 Hornet case just isn't designed for BP at all. But, the .22 Hornet is bascially a slightly re-designed .22 WCF case that held 15 grs. of BP and is very similar to the .22/15/60 cartridge. This makes a real dynamite Squiirrel caliber.

  If you do want to use BP in a .25 cal. then I would recommend the .25/20SS or .25/21 case and no more than a 1-12" twist and that you stay with 75 or 80 gr. bullets.

PETE