I am having a rifle built and am curious about the 28-30.The cartridge dimentions,range of bullet weights,throating,and is this a .284 bore,as I already have moulds in this size.
                                    Thanks Bob

Bob,

One thing about the .28-30 is brass availability.  It's my understanding that brass for a .28-30 cannot be readily formed from anything currently available.  Of course, Rocky Mt. Cartrige can supply lathe-turned cases.

How about the 7-30 Waters (based on the .30-30 case?)

Greg

Bob,

  Like First_Shirt is saying, the only place I know where you can get .28/30 brass is from RMC. It's where I got mine, and I'm completely satisfied with it. I've used one case for breech seating during load development, and several hundred rounds in competition, and altho it looks a little beat up it's still going strong. I've also shot quite a bit of BP thru the remaining cases as fixed ammo and they seem to be holding up well.

  On nice thing about having RMC make your cases  is that you can have then cut the primer pockets for anything you want, in case you're inclined to experiment along that line.

PETE

Bob,

  You can get dies for the .28/30 from Buffalo Arms. They have both the RCBS and 4D's. The 4D's are considerably cheaper than the RCBS but personally I'm not gonna recommend them to anyone. I've bought two sets of them and sent the .28/30 ones back to BA and got the RCBS's. The other set was for an 8.15 x 46R and it was barely acceptable. Particulars if you'd like.

  I haven't done any crimping. I just set up a "M" die with an expander plug the same diam. as the sized bullet. Mostly tho I have been breech seating. But, I think some experimenting with crimp will be in order this Spring. I know that for the .22 & .25 calibers crimping can help accuracy a lot since the mass of the bullet doesn't seem to be enuf to give the powder a chance to get up to pressure within the case. But, when you go up to .30 cal. it doesn't seem to give any benefit. So, I've been wondering what would happen with the .28. Will be interesting to try it out.

  RCBS does make shell holders for this cartridge, and you can use any standard size press you might have. I do my fixed ammo loading on a Bonanza Co-Ax, so your Rockchucker will do fine. I just use the Co-Ax because of the ease in switching dies.

  Interesting question about wall thickness. Never measured them so went down to the shop and measured some. Measuring several cases they average about .011". Not having an original case I can't say how this would relate to them, but if a comparable case like the .25/20SS is used for comparison then they would be .0015" thicker.

  Annealing is not required. If I recall right they have had the necks annealed. This is something I question as being necessary since the cases are turned from bar, I assume, and aren't subject to the same hardening as drawn cases. Some could consider this a handicap since it would probably not be a good idea to "soup" them up to velocities the cartridge wasn't originally designed for. As long as you stay within original parameters they do just fine.

  I agree it's an interesting thread. I really enjoy shooting the caliber. I don't think I'll ever be a threat to the top target shooters so just like the challenge the .28 presents when target shooting at 200 yds. Also, to me the .28 makes a really great Woodchuck/Fox type hunting weapon when used with cast bullets.

  The rifle I have mine in is an original Stevens 44 1/2 with a barrel made by Dave Casey...... owner of RMC. He made the cases to fit his chambering job. The gun is topped off with a 10x 1 1/4" Unertl, and I just got done having a SST trigger put into it. It'll be my offhand Schuetzen gun this year. Maybe get a little 'Chuck hunting with it if I can talk GWarden into it. 

PETE

Bob,

  I would suspect that a taper crimp might be best if you're looking for max. case life. It would pay tho to try various hardnesses of roll crimp just to see. After all, we're trying for max. accuracy!  Especially where small game like Woodchucks are concerned. Considering the trajectories I'd invest in a range finder to.

We've got a lot of Coyotes here in central Iowa to. Starting to get wild hogs migrating up from Missouri now, but think the .28 will be a little lite for them.

  You get a chance let us know how things are going when you get your gun made up.

PETE

Bob,

  Well, better to spend money on guns than at the local tavern! 

  Been looking thru the back messages on this and see you don't mention what barrel you're going with....... or you gonna leave that to the 'smith?

PETE

Bob,

  Yeah! Badgers seems to be getting a bad rep as far as delivery goes. They still make excellent barrels from what I hear if you can get one.

  The full octagon will probably be a problem out side of a custom 'smith. I've never had a Green Mtn. barrel so don't know much about them, other than the guys seem to think highly of them. Might give them a call and see what they can do for you.

  If they can't do anything I'd give Dave Casey of RMC a call. As I mentioned he did my .28/30 and machined it half oct/round to fit the forearm of my Stevens. If I recall right he used a Douglas blank.

  One thing you'll have to consider is what twist you want. Most modern barrels are made with faster twists than the original 1-14 so this will restrict what you can get from commercial sources if you decide to go with the original twist. Dave thought at first he might have to go with a custom barrel but apparently Douglas makes that twist.

  But, be careful when considering twist. The .28/30 was originally made to shoot BP, and no more than a 120 or 130 gr. bullet. So if you intend to shoot BP going to a faster twist and heavier bullets might not work to well.

  I had to learn this the hard way with the .25/20SS. I thought a faster than normal twist for it might allow me to use bullets in the 110 - 120 gr. class. It does work ok with smokeless, but is pushing the limits that the case will take. Blew out three primer pockets before I backed off slightly. BP just doesn't give it enuf push to work any better than standard 75 -80 gr. bullets and 110 gr. bullets will show slight tipping past 100 yds. even with heavily compressed loads.

PETE

Bob,

  As I mentioned in my first(?) reply the standard twist for the .28/30 is a 1-14" twist. This what Stevens came up with for shooting bullets in the 120 - 130 gr. class. Of course you can go lighter, and in some cases an individual gun can go higher. But, this  120 - 130 gr. bullet was also what Stevens designed the case for. In my experience, anyway, if you try to go outside the original wgt. range of a BP cartridges design you don't get satisfactory results.

  If you keep the above in mind then you'll get excellent results with either smokeless or BP. This is the beauty of these old BP designed cartridges. You can use either powder with no problems. Something not possible with many of the "race gun" cartridges used in Schuetzen today.

  There should be no confusion in your mind about that modern cartridge you mention. I'm not familiar with it but would imagine they will have twists quite a bit quicker than 1-14" in order to handle a 175 gr. bullet. All you have to remember is to work within the parameters that were originally designed into the case and you can't go wrong. And that's what I've mentioned above.

  Altho you can certainly use jacketed bullets if you want, I'll have to leave you to figure out what you can do with those, but can give you data for cast 120 gr. bullets with either BP or smokeless.

PETE

Bob,

  On primers....... With BP I prefer regular rifle size. Win.large rifles to be concise. I've tried the magnums and as far as I'm concerned they don't work as well as standards. With that said a friend thinks the magnum rifles work better for him. I should caveat this by saying we're both talking about igniting .50/90SS full house loads. So I believe that if a regular LR primer will ignite up to 110 grs. of 1F BP with minimum ES/SD's, then I think standards will work with any load. My thinking is you need enuf flame to ignite the powder adequately, but not enuf to push the charge out of the case before proper pressure is built up.

  With smokeless I prefer to use Rem. 2 1/2's which is kind of a standard for shooting Schuetzen in the .32/40 & .38/55 class of cartridges. When I go to smaller cases such as the .28/30 I go to the CCI BR-4 primers for both smokeless and BP.

  Grease grooves........ Yes. Deeper, wider, grease grooves are a necessity when using BP, and if you ever have a chance to look at moulds made when BP was king you'll see that's how they were made. But it's not necessary with smokeless, and, again, if you will look at most of the custom moulds made today for smokeless Schuetzen you'll see most of the will have narrow, shallow, grooves. If you plan on shooting both BP & smokeless I would get moulds with wide, deep grease grooves. These bullets can be used with smokeless just by regulating the number of grooves you fill. I've even had to reduce the amount of lube on a bullet shooting BP in order to get rid of flyers due to lube purging. As for should the grooves be deeper than the rifling, it would be pretty hard to find a mould that this wasn't true for.

  Moulds to buy...... Both Lyman & RCBS make very good moulds, and I have several of each, not to mention those I have from Hoch, Brooks, NEI, LBT, SAECO, Corbin, and quite a few I & a friend have made over the years for special jobs. If the mould is from a "commercial" maker then you will have to be careful that the mould you get will suit the powder you want to shoot as mentioned above. Custom makers of course will make anything you want within their capacity to do so.

  Sorry to hear about your blood levels. I also do quite a bit of pistol & rifle shooting, plus casting, but so far I'm still "safe" after 50 yrs. of casting. Like you tho, a friend has had to go thru the treatment to purge his blood of high Lead content, so I'm trying to be more careful. Both my doc and his, and I'm sure yours, told us the best thing you can do is to be sure and wash your hands after casting or handling cast bullets. Another friend has been casting commercially for years and he uses a good ventilation system and the last I heard his Lead level was well within safe limits.

PETE

  Pete;
      I think we've covered most everything,but while I was looking into bbl.makers I find one(Pac-Nor)who not only offers many twist rates but also you get to choose:3,5,or 6 lands.
  Any thoughts on this?And have I missed anything.
                                                                   Bob

  Pete:
       And speaking of rifling and such:If you should find such information soon let me know,could be interesting....It is also what intrigues me about whitworth rifling if it can be called that.Thanks again for your input.
                                          Bob

  Mike-t
        thanks for the reply.Yes I would be interested in your results.I was on the verge of going with a CPA when I saw the Wesson action.The rest is history now.We'll see!!
                                           Good Luck
                                                        Bob