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Normal Topic Green Mountain bbls and Sharps Threads? (Read 6496 times)
bohemianway
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Green Mountain bbls and Sharps Threads?
Jan 24th, 2005 at 8:41am
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I am attempting to rebarrel a C.Sharps 1874 Saddle rifle (Who would want a light 26” in 45-90?) to 38-55 for general fun shooting for me and the family and possibly black powder schutzen.   

So, I purchased a Green mountain #1 heavy Sharps blank in .38 with “Cut” Rifling for $162.  After taking a close look it is 100% button rifled.  My questions to those with more experience:

1) Is Green Mountain good, bad, or indifferent (please email at bohemianway@usfamily.net since GM is a huge advertiser).

2) I have always preferred cut rifling although the buttoned may be just as good in this lower price range barrel.  Any comments?

3) For the above barrel is $162 high, low, indifferent (please email again)?

4) Are there better values out there (please email again)?

5a) Most importantly:  What is the barrel threading and flare dimensions for the C. Sharps (from the late 70’s)?  I know somewhere in my collection there is a journal article but I am to lazy to search.

5b) Would a 1 1/8 Oct. or Round barrel work.  A GM straight oct. or round button rifled barrel is $125 and I would be fine with the profile.  Is this a reasonable alternative?

5c) If this $125 works I will install another on a CPA action that has been laying here since 1991.

Thank you for any comments/replies
Charles
  
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Green_Frog
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Re: Green Mountain bbls and Sharps Threads?
Reply #1 - Jan 24th, 2005 at 9:30am
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B-W, I currently own 3 cut rifled barrels from Grn Mtn.  I wrote a review for the SSR Journal about them approx. 3 years ago based on my experiences with the first two which I bought through normal, commercial channels.  The quality was and is exceptional even when compared to more expensive barrels.  My only difficulty with the first (.45-70 BP) barrel was the result of fouling on a hot, dry day...which I attributed then and now to poor lube choice, not the barrel.  The second (.32-40 with smokeless)  came to me with a tiny bit of scale in the bore due to the heat treating process that has since been improved to eliminate the problem and which I took care of with about 10 rounds of fire lapping.  Now I don't think I can MAKE that barrel foul.  Accuracy with both of these barrels is far better than I have ability to utilise. 
     I am currently fitting a light octagon bbl in .25-20 SS to a low-wall action and am fully confident that it will do just as well, but I have no data yet.
     As to button rifling, if the equipment is good and you start with a smooth, well reamed bore, the result will be quite good.  Is it as good as cut rifling? Is a Ford as good as a Chrysler or a Smith & Wesson as good as a Colt?  That depends, and someone will probably argue either side.  The barrels are good quality, they are priced very well, and they are usually available immediately in most bore sizes.  I like them a lot, but as with all things, YMMV!

Regards,
Charlie Shaeff
the Green Frog

PS  For 5a, try the first deHaas book, I think all of that information is there.  GF

PPS  At last report, I thought GM was only offering cut rifling on their 40+ cal barrels, did they start advertising they had a .38 bbl that was cut rifled?  GF
  
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ken_hurst
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Re: Green Mountain bbls and Sharps Threads?
Reply #2 - Jan 24th, 2005 at 10:41am
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I have tried them all ...... Gm is as good as the rest available for my money. I now own approx. 14 GM bbl's.  FWIW ken
  
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PETE
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Re: Green Mountain bbls and Sharps Threads?
Reply #3 - Jan 24th, 2005 at 12:11pm
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Charles,

  To try and answer your questions.......

1) I don't happen to own one but as you can see from the other replies they are well liked, and I don't recall ever hearing a bad word about them. Just be sure you get a barrel with the proper twist for cartridges and the bullet wgts. you want to use. Of course this would apply to any barrel you wished to get.

2) As mentioned by others this will of course depend on the machinery used, and the operator. Both are more than satisfactory if  properly done. See 1) above.

3) Nope! That's a pretty good price.

4) I would recommend looking at Douglas and Shilen barrels as being well worth the money too, but don't think either compares with GM as far as price goes. They might be a tad bit better as far as quality goes.

5a) Can't answer for sure, but I would suggest just calling C. Sharps and ask them what the threads are. They might be different than original Sharps.

5b) Either would be satisfactory altho you can get into some discussion as to whether the round barrel is more accurate than an octagon barrel. For anything more than the ultimate in accuracy either would be more than sufficient. It would more depend on what you think looks the best.

5c) Go for it! Sounds like a neat pair of projects.

PETE
  
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Re: Green Mountain bbls and Sharps Threads?
Reply #4 - Jan 24th, 2005 at 12:16pm
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Just to throw in my $0.02..I have a GM .32 cal barrel in 32/357 that I have shot this past year and it is a very good barrel, both in terms of accuracy and smoothness of the bore. I have another, .40 cal, being installed on a roller. I anticipate the same results in terms of accuracy and ease of cleaning, especially since it will be BP only. Outside, the flats need to be draw filed first as the cutter does leave some marks, but that is part of the fun of doing it yourself! I would buy another GM barrel in a New York minute, they are truly a gem at bargin pricing and delivery.

Ed
  
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ken_hurst
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Re: Green Mountain bbls and Sharps Threads?
Reply #5 - Jan 24th, 2005 at 3:28pm
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To further add to what Ed  just said ......   I just realized that I have DS Cole being bbl'd in 45-70, a lowall in 22 LR being done both by Steve Durren -- a #5 roller in 40-65 being bbl'd by Glenn Fewless -- a Lowall being bbl'd by Bob Snapp. There is a Borchardt and a Wesson long range and a Wesson center hung hammer mid range that are to be bbl'd by Glenn Fewless.  ALL of these rifles will wear GM bbl's.  Hope this indicates how much I like them .   ken
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Green Mountain bbls and Sharps Threads?
Reply #6 - Jan 24th, 2005 at 11:33pm
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I have two GM barrels. Both are .45-70, one on an original Ballard restoration, and the other on an original Hepburn action. Both shoot way better than I can hold! Others have shot them and all were impressed with the accuracy. 
They're a great value for the price.
  
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hst
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Re: Green Mountain bbls and Sharps Threads?
Reply #7 - Jan 25th, 2005 at 2:36am
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Mr. Way:

I have a GM barrel on my silhouette rifle and find it to be everyting one could ask for.  Another nice feature about the GM barrel is that you can actually get one. Nothing wrong with a Douglas or any one of a number of good barrels, but no others are availablle in octagon. Cutting a round barrel octagon would cost the price of a GM barrel.

As for the Sharps, only the GM Sharps barrel will fit the rifle. I don't recall the Sharps barrel thread offhand, but it is huge and the 1-1/8" barrel is not big enough to fit to it. That is way the Sharps barrel costs so much more, it comes from a larger blank.

Glenn
  
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JDSteele
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Re: Green Mountain bbls and Sharps Threads?
Reply #8 - Jan 25th, 2005 at 10:28am
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I'll reiterate what the others said. GM makes cut-rifled bbls in 40, 45 & 50 only, so far as I know. I've installed & used GM bbls (well over a dozen) for years now, on my own rifles and some for friends, and been well satisfied in all respects. They're definitely BY FAR the best bbl for the money IMO, equal in accuracy to the best and a LOT cheaper. And as Glenn says, just the fact that they're already cut octagon is worth a lot.

They also have the proper twist and bore dimensions for our sports, unlike some of the higher-priced spreads. For instance Shilen & at least one other maker use an odd 406 bore for their 40 cal bbls, necessitating a special chamber reamer. Also it's hard to find good bbls with the tight twists necessary to stabilize long bullets. GM uses the more-usual & more-desirable 408 bore and their bbls all have tighter twists than most others.

Of course Jack Krieger will cut anything you want and his bbls are simply the best ('cept maybe for Boots Obermeyer's), but Krieger's are 2-3 times the money & Boot's aren't available for the average shooter. So I for one will never hesitate to use a GM bbl, they're better than some I've used from Douglas and Shilen.

BTW if your gunsmith can't determine the thread dimensions from examining your action, REPLACE HIM!!!! 'Cause he's NO good, period, 'nuff said, end of discussion!
JMOFWIW, good luck, Joe
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Green Mountain bbls and Sharps Threads?
Reply #9 - Jan 25th, 2005 at 8:09pm
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The round section at the back of the octagon on a Sharps must be at least 1.25" The threads on a Sharps 1874 are 1.127" diameter shank, with 10 square threads per inch. The threaded section is .760" long. The Borchardt uses a 16V TPI and a much smaller diameter of .945"
  
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