Darn!

Make that "Degrees" where I posted "minutes" !

Forrest

I Don't know your setup but possibly a change in the height of the front sight could also be used.

Whatcheer,

Thanks for the post.

Unfortunately the elevation change is much greater than any front sight could accomodate. I got the wrong term in my first post but corrected it.

If a fellow looks to the sight movement for 2 degrees of elevation, knowing that at the sight radius of an average M1895 Marlin will calculate out at 0.006 inches sight movement per minute of angle he will come up with about 3/4 inch sight movement for 2 degrees: Much too much for a front sight to move.

Good morning,
Forrest



 My BSA had a stepped front sight base, high for 50 yards and low for 100 yards so only minor adjustments needed to be made, saved wear and tear. [/quote]

I have a Redfield Olympic sight on my O3 Target rifle. It's 60 moa adjustment or about 5/8 inch travel. On my Smallbore M1922 Springfield the Lyman 48 has 120 moa travel and it's over an inch.

I am no expert on the Redfields but I think the "Palma" is the one with a long slide and more travel. I doubt however they have more travel than a Lyman 48. 

I don't know your caliber or bullet but if it's something like a 45/70 it takes a whole lot of staff to reach 800 yards. My Trapdoor Cadet model has the sight on the barrel so sight radius is not so much as on a tang sight. With 24 inch sight radius it shows 1 1/4 inch movement on the staff to change from 200 to 1000 yards. In fact I use even more since I shoot a 405 gr bullet and need to dial 1200 plus on the staff to zero at 1000 yards. 

If you had 36 inch radius like on most tang sight single shots it cuts staff height required by 1/3.  But they also need staff to get from the tang to sight line so they end up being very long too.

I don't know how much you will shoot the Marlin at long range. It takes a lot of sight and set up that way is probably not very balanced for most general shooting 

You can use  alternate sighting, Put a bullseye higher and on line with your intended target to sight only. You change and adjust just like you were sighting on the actual bull but the bullet is actualy striking the intended target.

This has worked for me using pistols on Steel swingers at 500 yards. The sighter target was on top of the berm about 20 feet higher than the steel swinger. 

It all depends on how you plan to spend most of your time. Long range and short range with high trajectory bullets is hard to acheave.

Boats

Boats,

Thanks for your post about sights.

I seem to remember the Lyman 48 was built for mounting on the right side of various bolt actions. I like the amount of travel but getting it moved over to the left side of the Marlin might be hard to do.

B: I am no expert on the Redfields but I think the "Palma" is the one with a long slide and more travel. I doubt however they have more travel than a Lyman 48. 

F:  Yes. Now that you have said it I know you must be right. Does anyone know more about the Palma Sight or where to find one?

B:  I don't know your caliber or bullet but if it's something like a 45/70 it takes a whole lot of staff to reach 800 yards. My Trapdoor Cadet model has the sight on the barrel so sight radius is not so much as on a tang sight. With 24 inch sight radius it shows 1 1/4 inch movement on the staff to change from 200 to 1000 yards. In fact I use even more since I shoot a 405 gr bullet and need to dial 1200 plus on the staff to zero at 1000 yards. 

F:  Yes!

The sight movement is considerable. I did not intend to shoot the 40/65 any further than 800 yards, and that is plenty far enough for the lever rifle design and intent for me. None-the-less my modifed receiver sight goes high enough that I have to shoot with my jaw open in order to stabilize my head to the buttstock as I sight the rifle at 800 yards.

B: I don't know how much you will shoot the Marlin at long range. It takes a lot of sight and set up that way is probably not very balanced for most general shooting.

F: I made the rifle for hunting but have not used it for its intended purpose for some years now. 

These days I use it exculsively for long range shooting.

B:  You can use  alternate sighting, Put a bullseye higher and on line with your intended target to sight only. You change and adjust just like you were sighting on the actual bull but the bullet is actualy striking the intended target.

F:  Steel silhouettes are all we shoot here!

B: It all depends on how you plan to spend most of your time. Long range and short range with high trajectory bullets is hard to achieve.

F: Sure, this is so. 

On the other hand the old semi-modifed M336 Marlin (M1895) does well when single-loaded with long heavy bullets. I am satisfied with the rifle's accuracy and performance. Now I'd like to have better, more easily used sights.
 

Good afternoon,
Forrest

Boats,

  I've already mentioned this to Forrest, but if you're looking for a repro of the O'Hare micrometer sight adjuster you can check out the following web site. From the talk on the CSP Forum it seems like they'll be starting up production in a week or so.

                      (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

PETE

Lyman 48's come both left and right handed. But considering what you have told me tang sights are the way to go for your Marlin M 1895 

Boats,

I have plenty of tang sights in my bag of tricks already and would have installed one long ago.. if they would fit.

The problem is that the long bolt-throw of the lever rifle combined with the small of the stock being relitivly high make this impossible: Even with the tang sight in the "down" position there is not enough clearance for the action to operate.

I own and shoot several single shot rifles over long ranges and am accustomed to the use of tang sights in their various configurations.

The most common sight staff graduations are inches, with the vernier scale for adjustments in 0.010 incriments. This, as we know, is one minute of angle with the 36 inch sight raduis. 

The full 36 inch distance between sights makes for a pretty long rifle! but Ifind that I like degrees and minutes somewhat better than inches and hundredts. It seems more "Traditional" somehow and my current sights on the CPA Stevens and 1895 Marlin are both in degrees.

I keep sight-setting cards in the ammunition boxes. These are therefore always with the rifle and hold enough information to allow me to step up to just about any firing line with fair confidence.

Thanks for the post, good morning,
Forrest

Forrest,

  According to the talk on some of the Forums the O'Hare repro should be available in a coupa weeks. One guy mentioned he'd emailed in his back order. Might be something you can consider to.

  Just to keep this on SS's. Do you think you could use it on a trapdoor sight? Maybe even some of those cheap tang sights that don't have a screw for elevation, or markings? Since I don't own an 03 this was an idea that ran thru my mind when first seeing them.

PETE

Hello Forrest, I decided to follow up and try to attach some pictures of a bracket that we use on SS rifles. This applicaton is for a 22 LR. It uses the same line of sight as when I put on my lyman STS. It is used for 50. 100 and 200 yard BR. On a centerfire for long distance, I use a taller bracket and T&D
it every 3/4 inch. Then we can simply put the sight at the appropiate height for the distance you are shooting. A set screw is used to engage the sight to keep it from tipping and the original screw is used to hold the sight on. Hope[email][/email]fully the attachments come through, If not I can send them to any e-mail address. Long Rifle

They're all up. The E adjustable front sight is a CENTRA, has 48 minutes of adjustment, and is 1MOA click adjustable. It's about the most terrifying thing I've ever seen on a rifle.
I think I've seen others, not quite so elaborate.
joe b.

Yes, in the Sinclair catalog I get every few months there are one or more front sights adjustable for elevation. High power rifle seems to be the place they're used. 

Joe,

OK.

I believe you but such a set up I've never seen!

J:  Now this ain't going to look like we think rifle sights SHOULD look, but it makes for much more comfortable and probably accurate shooting.

F:  It would require some serious work on a special stock, that is for sure. 

As for accuracy I wonder if it would not be similar more than anything. Keep in mind that changing sight elevations would become very clumsy if they were on the front sight! I need all the help I can get on the firing line. Not another difficult job.

J:  I've shot very little long range single shot, and found that at 600 yards all of my face was off the stock of my C. Sharps 1875. If I had a place to shoot long range, I'd rig the sights up with E on the front.

F: Certainly my jaw is off the stock for most any distance beyond 6 or 700 yards, and that is not to mention 1000 yards at all. None-the-less I cannot conceive of such top-hamper any elevation adjustable front sight would require to come close to what is required for shooting over this kind of range.

J: I have tang sights, Lyman and Redfield micrometer sights, and a Walther rear sight, and aperture front sights of my own design. I'd be happy to lend you whatever you needed to try this out. 

F: Thanks for the offer. Right now I think I'll stay with what I have. It is not perfect but it does work and I'm used to it.

Good evening,
Forrest

I have, but only on handguns.

Would a Ron Snover  or Dr. Goodwin tang solve your problem?  With  the offset staff you would probably be able to have both a fully functional rifle  and a tang sight.  As long as you're shooting long-range only, mind you...  Just a thought

Martini,

Now that is a thought.

I have seen some shooters with off-set sights. Usually they are forced into it because their master eye goes bad and they have to go to the other side with an off-set sight. This seens to be a better idea than trying to re-learn shooting wby switching from right to left (or the other way around)

Good afternoon,
Forrest

Gentlemen,

I have received s-mail from CBAs Mustafa Curtess about this rear sight question. 

He should get a computer himself I'd say, it would speed things up a lot.

Anyway. The man included a clipping from "Shoot" magazine that depicts a Montana Vintage Arms Model 130 rear sight for use in "Cowboy" shooting with the M1895. The sight is built such that the staff is further back than anything I have seen before, pretty much back on the wood even but the rifle is shown with the action open, proving that it clears the sight as mounted.

I plan on getting one if they make the staff tall enough for me to reach my 800 yard distance.

Good morning,
Forrest

This "Elevation on the front sight" thing has me stuck. 

Joe,

Something has happened here as I considered the MVA tang sight mentioned above.

The sight as I saw it in the clipping looked very good but as I examined it as closely as possible in the picture it seemed that the staff might be a little short.

I intended to call MVA and ask them exactly how tall the staff is on the M130 and compare it with what I know I need for elevation on my M1895, so I measured the height above bore line I use in the rifle for setting the present sight for 800 yards.

I came up with 2.182 inches above bore centerline for this figure.

Now, if a fellow had a front sight roughly 2 inches tall on his rifle it would look quite odd I think! But it would be necessary to have it about that tall in order for the sights to be used for shorter ranges such as 1 or 200 yards. The rear sight would also have to be quite tall for all these things to be possible and the stock, as we have mentioned, would have to have a VERY high comb.

For me all these things pretty much rule out any further consideration about elevation on the front sight. It would just be too weird.

Now, Old Elmer Keith used his front sight for elevation for those brag long shots he always wrote about with his 44 magnum. do you remember exactly how those were made?

Good morning,
Forrest

All they did was to elevate the front sight in the rear notch and even held the top of the rear sight down into the top strap in order to get out there.

PETE ,

Yes.

I was playing the advocate there for Joe's benifit, asking about the way that was done.

I remember Elmer publishing a picture of his custom front sight. It had marks or "graduations" on the blade that allowed him to increase elevation semi-predictably for those brag shots he was always telling us about.

It was really just a slightly fancy way of holding over and it is kind of fun for those times wheel guns are out for the day in open country.

Good morning,
Forrest