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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) cimmeron hi wall problem (Read 18541 times)
dgc27
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cimmeron hi wall problem
Nov 6th, 2004 at 7:20pm
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I have a cimmeron hi wall in 38-55 that has a problem with miss fires. Sometimes it fires ,but more often it only puts a small dent in the primer. If the gun is empty the hammer falls down to the breech block every time, but if you put a cartrdge in, it only dents the primer enough to fire about one out of five times. When it missfires the hammer stops short of the breech block. I have checked head space ,and it is ok . the firing pin protrudes .058 past breech face. Has anyone had the same problem , and knows a fix , or should I just keep shooting rollers &martinis until I get a cpa?Thanks for any help .DGC27     PS It has double set trigger
  
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Green_Frog
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Re: cimmeron hi wall problem
Reply #1 - Nov 6th, 2004 at 8:48pm
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It sounds to me like the fly in the hammer isn't doing its job.  I didn't even know that Cimmeron had finally gotten around to releasing a DST model, but if it is built like the original Winchester adaptation of the Browning high-wall, there should be a fly in the hammer to keep the sear from dragging in the half cock notch as the hammer falls.  If that was not done in the Cimmeron design, and if that is indeed the problem, I don't know how to get it to work unless you remove the half cock notch altogether...a strategy which was used on a fair number of original high-walls, especially with "speed lock" modifications.  I should say that a call to Cimmeron would be in order first to see if they have a fix, especially if they are just starting up with the DST...they may have put in the wrong hammer.  Embarrassed

HTH, the Green Frog
  
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dgc27
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Re: cimmeron hi wall problem
Reply #2 - Nov 7th, 2004 at 4:45am
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Mr. Frog : The hammer does have a fly ,and it still hangs up.  What has me stumped  why does it only happen when there is a cartrigde in the chamber. I wil give cimmeron a call as you suggest,and if they can tell why this is happening I will post results. Thanks  DGC27
  
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hst
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Re: cimmeron hi wall problem
Reply #3 - Nov 7th, 2004 at 3:49pm
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Mr. dgc27:

Don't let this little problem sour you on the action. I believe that the cimmeron is made by Uberti, and the one I examined a little while back looked to be a right fine action.

It is hard to be sure where to look from your discription, but my take is that you have a firing pin problem. When you say that the Hammer stops short of the breech block with a cartridge in the chamber, do you mean just a wee bit short, like .030"? If this is so my guess is that there is just a small burr or such on the firing pin or in the hole that is causing the pin to bind. 

If the action has an inertial firing pin, ala the evil Mann-Niedner design, the firing pin problem is even more likely. Then it would take much less to retard the pin. Also there would then be the spring what could cause the problem.

Since you measured the firing pin protrusion, I assume you have had the breech blockout of the rifle. Does the firing pin move freely in the block? Can you make it bind by putting a little pressure up, down or sideways on the firing pin tip as it just begins to protrude from the breech face? 

Is it an inertial firing pin? Such a pin is shorter than the depth of the breech block. When the back of the pin is flush with the back of the block, does the tip proturde from the breech face? If so, it is a conventional pin.

No worries. Whether it be the fly or the firing pin, or maybe some other strange thing, it is not a big problem and I expect will be easy enough to solve.

Glenn
  
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ken_hurst
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Re: cimmeron hi wall problem
Reply #4 - Nov 7th, 2004 at 9:43pm
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And further more  Cheesy,   HST (Glenn Fewless) is the man to make it right for you --- without a doubt !     Ken
  
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First_Shirt
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Re: cimmeron hi wall problem
Reply #5 - Nov 8th, 2004 at 12:11pm
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HST, there is an exploded view of the Uberti action on Cimmaron's website, and it appears to have a "Mann-Neidner" firing pin arrangement.  Everything else looks pretty high-wallish, with the exception of the curious spring arrangement...the action has a coil mainspring, and a flat mainspring (that apparently only holds tension on the lever).

Greg
  
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hst
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Re: cimmeron hi wall problem
Reply #6 - Nov 8th, 2004 at 2:01pm
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Mr. Shirt:

Thanks for the information. I done went to the sight for a look see. Everything does look pretty much original, but it obviously is a Mann-Niedner pin. Impossible to tell if it is an inertia pin but most likely is.

Interesting thing about the two springs! Assuming the drawing to be accurate, they both drive the hammer. The flat spring looks for all the world to be a real live Winchester flat spring, and the hammer she is sure enough a flatspring hammer. Then again, the the breech block doesn't show the holes for the ends of the coil spring. Now I be curious...

Glenn
  
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JDSteele
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Re: cimmeron hi wall problem
Reply #7 - Nov 8th, 2004 at 8:17pm
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Glenn, several yrs ago I evaluated and bbld a couple of Uberti high wall actions for Green Mountain Bbl Co. Something for a dog-&-pony show they were having for someone (I didn't ask 'em no questons & they didn't tell me no lies). Those particular actions used both springs but the flat spring acted only upon the lever. The Mann-Neidner f/p was not the inertia type in this particular design as I recall, and actually was too pointed & protruded too far IMO.

These actions didn't have set triggers or a fly in the hammer but this was several years ago & things are obviously different with the current production.

GM was evaluating the Uberti high wall action and also a roller made a number of years ago by another Italian maker (who shall remain nameless by me on this thread 'cause their quality has now increased exponentially), I also bbld the roller for them. I was somewhat underwhelmed by both actions, but reluctantly conceded that the Uberti high wall was much the better of the two & would make an acceptable rifle.

My main bitch with the Uberti wall was the fact that the breechblock cannot be removed without first removing the buttstock & lower tang. A definite miinus IMO. As I recall, John Campbell (gasp!) did an evaluation article for the Journal several years ago.

Sorry I don't have any suggestions about cures, only up-close-&-personal examination of the patient will tell the tale.
Good luck as always, Joe
  
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JDSteele
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Re: cimmeron hi wall problem
Reply #8 - Nov 8th, 2004 at 8:24pm
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Have just noticed an example of mild & apparently automatic censorship on my last post. 'Whine' was NOT what I wrote, and the word that I DID write was not one of the seven words that George Carlin says you can't say on TV. So I wonder what gives?

Webmaster? Josh?
  
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PETE
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Re: cimmeron hi wall problem
Reply #9 - Nov 8th, 2004 at 9:45pm
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Joe,

  That had to be the best laugh I've had in days. "Whine"!   Cheesy

  Bet you used the "B" word!

PETE
  
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Green_Frog
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Re: cimmeron hi wall problem
Reply #10 - Nov 9th, 2004 at 10:24am
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Joe, the least they could do is give you a little cheese to go with that whine.  Grin

I'd like to have a list of the words that are automatically "censored, " but how could we post it?  Roll Eyes

Hugs and Kisses 
(terms approved by the webmeister's Dad  8) )
Charlie the Frog
  
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Brent
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Re: cimmeron hi wall problem
Reply #11 - Nov 9th, 2004 at 10:31am
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GF, I'd MUCH rather have the censoring turned off completely.  Something to do with being grown ups and the first ammendment, etc. seems to make such babysitting quite unnecessary.

Brent
  
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JDSteele
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Re: cimmeron hi wall problem
Reply #12 - Nov 9th, 2004 at 8:27pm
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Yes Josh or GF or whoever's listening, I gotta agree with Brent and plenty of it. Don't forget what happened to the 'other' ASSRA sites when they took it upon themseves to censor the posts. Kinda dried up, didn't they?

Yes I used the B word, and it's a perfectly respectable word you'll find in most any dictionary. Can be a noun or a verb or an adjective & maybe even an adverb for all I know. Of course we all know it can be used in a pejorative sense when speaking of an unpleasant woman or her behavior or her male offspring. But it's also the universal description of all canine females and is also used to describe the complaints of soldiers, and is perfectly acceptable in anyone's polite society in both of these usages.

Of course those of us with naturally dirty & officious & petty minds will 'whine' about the word itself being possibly offensive to some because of its possible connotations in some usages under some conditions etc etc ad nauseam.

I'm curious, who would feel offended? And I'm also curious as to just exactly what other words are included in the non-PC hit list? (besides George's infamous seven, of course)
Inquiring minds...............Joe
  
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ken_hurst
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Re: cimmeron hi wall problem
Reply #13 - Nov 9th, 2004 at 11:43pm
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I for one, as a 65 year old Christian do not find the "B" word objectionable.  Am I one of a few or do others share the same opinion ?  Ken
  
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PETE
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Re: cimmeron hi wall problem
Reply #14 - Nov 10th, 2004 at 3:17pm
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  I won't address this to any one person so hopefully I won't hurt anyones feelings.

  Having been born & raised on "The River" and spending a lot of time with the commercial fishermen growing up, I can assure that the "B" word is a rather mild word in my rather extensive vocabulary, and doesn't cause me to shudder if I hear it. Those who know me know I've never been adverse in using four letter words either.

  With that said I don't know what Josh can do to trim the objectionable word list down. It might be "hard-wired" into the program, or more than likely it's either "on" or "off", with no way of selecting those words no one has objections to.

  So, it doesn't really make any difference to me if I can use a word or not. Seems like a lot of fuss over virtually nothing. The argument that we're all adults on here is facetious at best since we have no way of knowing the age of anyone here, or whether they find mild or harsh gutter language objectionable.

  In most cases I try to write on these Forums in a way that any age group can read what I say without their parents feeling they have to censor the Forum from them.

  Asking for an opinion poll of who cares, or doesn't care, whether we control the language is also facetious since everyone knows that 10% of the people do 100% of the emailing here, or on any Forum, and the rest never say a word one way or another. They will cast their vote by leaving!

  The other thing to remember is that Josh is the sysop here and in that role is the next thing to God. I have no idea how Josh feels about this situation, but as far as I'm concerned I'll leave it up to him how he wants to run this Forum, since I think he's done a pretty good job of it so far.

  The hard truth is, if you feel your rights are being trampled on by not being able to use certain words, then it is also your right to find a Forum that suits your tastes better.

  Actually I get quite a kick out of seeing the word "thingy" used in reference to the shortened version of Richard.  Smiley

PETE
  
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