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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Slug the Bore (Read 15320 times)
Blacki
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Slug the Bore
Aug 15th, 2004 at 1:15pm
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What is the proper way to slug the bore of a Remington R.B.. Is it done from the muzzel to the breach coming out the chamber: or should it not be pushed out the chamber, but only to the chamber-bore junction and then reversed to come out the muzzel?? My thought being that the chamber-throat diameter might be smaller than the actual bore diam. and therefore give a false bore diameter. Thanks.

Blacki
  
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singleshot
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Re: Slug the Bore
Reply #1 - Aug 15th, 2004 at 8:07pm
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Blackie- I would suggest slugging BOTH ends to see if there is any taper, and also push a slug all the way hrough from the breech to see if there are any tight or loose spots in the bore.

Willis ??? ???
  

Willis Gregory, aka singleshot
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Blacki
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Re: Slug the Bore
Reply #2 - Aug 17th, 2004 at 3:13pm
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OK, the gun has arrived. It appears to be a cut down .43 rifle made into a carbine.By the markings it is a M1881 Remington Oviedo in what seems to be .43 Spanish Remington. The barrel measures 21 & 5/8ths inches long. The muzzel opening mikes out to .3125", a REAL Quick slugging gives a .437 bore. I have to make a chamber cast and do a better bore slug.Here's my problem, the rough slug of the bore did NOT show any land/grooves, however when you look in the bore you can see faint rifeling and the bore is Very Shiny without pitting! Could the shiney bore be due to excessive leading of the bore or is the bore pretty much shot out? I did not clean the bore before doing the slug. But, when I did run some patches with Hoppes #9 through it, they were filithy!! Any suggestion as to what to do?? I do not intend to shoot this gun a lot but before investing in dies, cases, bullets, etc. I would like to hear from someone with more experience than I have. I would like to use it for B.P. plinking.Thanks

Blacki Grin
  
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PETE
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Re: Slug the Bore
Reply #3 - Aug 17th, 2004 at 4:48pm
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Blacki,

  You're right in not spending a lot of money on something that might be shot out. Your best bet right now is to clean the rifle and to make sure all the fouling and Leading is out, and then proceed with taking measurements as suggested by Willis.

  I'm not familiar with this model rifle, but one thing to remember is that a lot of these old military cartridge rifles never had very deep rifling to begin with. With BP there is no real reason for it.

  I guess I don't understand your muzzle dim. of .3125" and then you say a slug measured .437. Even if you misprinted the first dim. and it's really .4125" this would make for some very deep rifling. You don't mention if the slug was pushed all the way thru, or just an inch or so into the muzzle.... or breech, and then pushed back out.

  With the info you've given us it's hard to give advice. So... Relax! Take your time and do what's been suggested in the proper order and manner. Most likely things will become pretty well self-evident. But, if not report back with some useful information and I'm sure someone will be able to help you with any questions. We're not going anywhere!

PETE
  
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waterman
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Re: Slug the Bore
Reply #4 - Aug 21st, 2004 at 5:48pm
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I have seen a number of old military BP rifles with shallow rifling.  Some of them were more accurate with paper-patched bullets than with our "modern" cast lead kind.  The previous advice is correct.  Scrub the heck out of the barrel with a bronze brush (NOT stainless). That may take days! You may need more than one bore brush.  And then slug the bore using a piece of soft lead that is big enough to fill all the bore.
  
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ssdave
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Re: Slug the Bore
Reply #5 - Aug 21st, 2004 at 7:55pm
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Blacki,

The advice I am giving may seem a bit harsh, but here it is.  I personally would not  invest anything into a military rolling block in .43 spanish, not cases, dies, or molds.  I wouldn't even invest in the time to try to work with it if I was given the dies, mold and cases.

Over the past few years I have seen this question and discussion at least a dozen times.  The people that have tried it before have said "rebarrel it to a reasonable caliber, in the long run you'll be happier."   Several of the posters have gone ahead anyway, and a few months or a couple of years later, they post that they have a project where they're rebarreling a .43 spanish to something else, and want to sell dies, brass, molds.

Generally, military rolling blocks have barrels that won't shoot well.  The muzzle is usually worn funnel shaped from cleaning rods, and the pitting/wear/problems in the bore preclude fine accuracy.  The .43 spanish is a somewhat difficult round to load accurately anyway.  Combine all this together, and you're on a quick road to failure.   

I work on rolling blocks a bit.  When I get a .43, I throw the barrel away, don't even waste the time to ebay it.  I think it's a disservice to perpetuate the misery!  I'd personally rebarrel to .45-XX (fill in the x's with 70 or 90) and never look back.  Dies, brass, bullets, etc are readily available and cheap, which they aren't for the .43.  The savings in mold, dies, brass will almost pay for the rebarrel and you'll have a guaranteed shooter.

For what it's worth......

dave
  
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JDSteele
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Re: Slug the Bore
Reply #6 - Aug 21st, 2004 at 9:35pm
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What Dave said, and plenty of it. I'll go even further & recommend using the rotary extractor in your new barrel.
Good luck, Joe
  
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Blacki
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Re: Slug the Bore
Reply #7 - Aug 26th, 2004 at 12:28pm
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Pete,
I recleaned the bore multiple times. I can now see rifling so I reslugged the bore with a .439 lead bullet. The bullet drops into the breech end without any problems ( too loose I think ) but it comes to a dead stop about 6 inches from the muzzel end. When pushed through and measured it measures out at .4375. Now is a .439 bullet going to be able to be fired through this area ( muzzel end of barrel is .0015" narrower than breech end ) assuming obturation of the bullet upon firing??? Any thoughts?
Thanks
Blacki
  
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PETE
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Re: Slug the Bore
Reply #8 - Aug 26th, 2004 at 2:43pm
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Blacki,

Mercy! That is one large bore, but at least it is tapered in the right direction.

  The bullet you have MIGHT work out ok if you use BP. I won't make any bets on accuracy tho as the bump-up sounds like it would be quite a bit. What you need to do next is to find a slug that is big enuf so you can find out what the bore measures just in front of the chamber. This measurement with about .002" added will be bullet you'll want to try first. It's far better to size the bullet down in the bore than to start out with an undersized bullet and hope the BP will bump it up evenly.

  Try to find someone with some bullets this size that will give you some to try out. One of the big problems could be that loading a cartridge with a bullet of the right size won't chamber. Not to likely tho since most military chambers of those days were plenty large, but you want to be sure so that you don't spend a lot of money uselessly.

  You also might get ahold of the Single Shot Exchange and see if they will send you the August issue of their magazine. It has a real nice article on the .43 Spanish. The author goes into some detail of his working up a load for the Rem. 1879 RB, which I think will be very helpful to you.

PETE
  
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Blacki
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Re: Slug the Bore
Reply #9 - Aug 26th, 2004 at 3:01pm
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The bore at the very begining of the rifling measures .4687, did a chamber cast.Yes it will be B.P.
Blacki
  
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40_Rod
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Re: Slug the Bore
Reply #10 - Aug 27th, 2004 at 9:09am
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Blacki
This gun is begging you to either rebarrel it or reline it. After you spend the money on dies, brass and moulds you will end up with a rifle that might keep 5 shots on the target backer. Stop waisting time and money either get it relined or re barrel it to something easier on you and your pocketbook. At least when you are done you will have something that will shoot.

40 Rod
  
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waterman
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Re: Slug the Bore
Reply #11 - Aug 27th, 2004 at 9:24pm
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I am most curious about the chamber shape & measurements.  Blacki, was it a bottlenecked chamber or a straight taper?  Would you please post the chamber measurements?  Thanks.

FWIW, I think the advice about a new barrel is good if you intend to do a lot of serious shooting with your old RB, but begin with the end in mind.  It is easy to get more $ into those old military rifles than they are worth.  I have an 1886 Kropatschek with a lot of time & TLC invested in it.  Also a set of 4-D dies and cases made from .348 brass and every time I look at the old Krop, I wonder what I was thinking about.  My late friend & I had a lot of fun restoring the old  dog, with attendant cheap red wine & $2 cigars, but the memories are worth a lot more than the rifle.

  
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Blacki
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Re: Slug the Bore
Reply #12 - Aug 28th, 2004 at 8:16am
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Ok the case appears to be of the Reformado type ( tapered, no bottleneck ). Measurements as follow :
base diam.= .5625
rim diam.=.6562
rim thickness = .093
case length= 2.25
neck diam.=.50

Of interest, I took a .45 cal. semi auto bullet and droped it into the chamber and it stopped at the beginning of the rifling.I'm thinking that my .43 Spanish Remington is Really a .43 Spanish Reformado!According to cartridges of the world, the Reformado takes a .454 diam. bullet ( aka 45 semi-auto type).
  
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waterman
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Re: Slug the Bore
Reply #13 - Aug 29th, 2004 at 10:42pm
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I think Cartridges of the World is wrong with the Reformado history.  The Reformado cartridge apparently originated in Spain when they could not get those 11mms to shoot accurately (to mil. stds) when they were new.  They blamed bottlenecked cases. So reamed out the chambers & apparently enough of the breech end to swallow a big brass-jacketed bullet.  I don't know why the Spanish had problems and the Argentinians did not.  All the Reformado cartridges I have seen have Spanish headstamps and dates from the 1890s.

I do not know where you would find Reformado brass, and that rim measurement says you might think about headspace.  But if you had 1 or 2 cases, you might be able to breechseat a lead .45 bullet and at least find out if the barrel has any potential as a plinker.
  
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ken_hurst
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Re: Slug the Bore
Reply #14 - Aug 29th, 2004 at 11:52pm
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For goodness sakes man, do yourself a favor and trash that bbl & get a new one as suggested !  Many of us have tried the route you are on and have learned the hard way -- learn from our mistakes. The guys that recommend trashing the present bbl are 100& right, it's cheaper to hang a new bbl in the long run.   Ken
  
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